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murar agus mura

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May 07 2008, 21:59 PM
Teifeach "Scéalaí Mór" Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 1,920	Quote Mura ,,,,,,,,, Murar ,........... Muna any notes or info on these structures , as i did a lesson on them tonite , and i realised i never use them a lot and i would like to correct this , and find out as much as i can about their usage , im kinda ok with them but any sites with lessons or info or examples of this structure , would be gratefully accepted. Grma
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May 08 2008, 1:09 AM
braoin "Laoch na nGael" Joined: 25 Feb 2007 Location: Éire Posts: 1,480	Quote A few examples off the top, if they might throw some light on the subject: Mura raibh tú ann, chaill tú neart. If you weren't there, you lost out on a lot. Mura bhfuil tú anseo, ní thiocfaidh sé abhaile. If you are not here, he won't come home. Mura mbeidh tú ann, ní fhanfaidh mise san áit. If you will not be there, I will not stay in the place. Muna is a commonly used dialectic form of Mura. Murar féidir leat é a dhéanamh, fág é. If you cannot do it, leave it. Murar fear mór é féin, ní lá go maidin é. If he isn't a big man, I'm a Dutchman. Murar thug tú domsa é, níl a fhios agam cá bhfuil sé. If you did not give it to me, I do not know where it is. Munar is a commonly used dialectic form of Murar _________________ Fan le tuairimí ar gach aistriúchán a thabharfar! Wait for discussion on all translations given!!!
May 08 2008, 13:43 PM
Teifeach "Scéalaí Mór" Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 1,920	Quote Go raibh maith agat ,, these are the ones i tryed , can you have a wee look through them , Murar bhris tú an fhuinneog cé bhris í? Cé bhris an fhuinneog murar bhris tú í? Murar ghlan tú an teach cé ghlan é? Cé ghlan an teach murar ghlan tusa é? Cé a dhruid an doras murar dhruid tú é? Murar dhruid tú an doras cé dhruid é? Murar ól tú m'uisce cé ól é? Cé ól m'uisce murar ól tú é? Cé a thiomáin abhaile murar thiomáin tú? Murar thiomnáin tú abhaile cé a thiomáin? Murar thog tú mo leabhar cé thog é? Cé thog mo leabhar murar thog tú é? Cé sheinn port murar sheinn tú ceann? Murar sheinn tú port cé sheinn ceann? Murar rith tú an rás cé rith é? Cé rith an rás murar rith tú é? Cé oscail an doras murar oscail tú é? Murar oscail tú an doras cé oscail é? Mura raibh tú ag an rang cé a bhí ann? Cé a bhí ag an rang mura raibh tú ann? Mura ndeachaigh tú go Doire cé chuuaigh? Cé chuaigh go Doire mura ndeachaigh tú? Mura bhfaca tú Pól aréir cé chonaic é? Cé a chonaic Pól aréir murar bhfaca tú é? Cé a rinne lón mura ndearna tusa é? Mura ndearna tú lón cé rinne é? Mura bhfuair tú an t-airgead cé fuair é? Cé fuair an t-airgead mura bhfuair tú é? Mura raibh tinneas ort cén fáth nach raibh tú ar scoil? Cén fáth nach raibh tú ar scoil mura raibh tinneas ort? Mura ndeachaigh tú chuig an banc cá bhfuair tú an t-airgead? Cá bhfuair tú an t-airgead mura ndeachaigh tú chuig an banc? Mura bhfaca tú an clár beidh sé ann anocht arís. Beidh an clár ann anocht arís mura bhfaca tú é. Mura ndearna tú an obair déan anois é. Déan an obair anois mura ndearna tú é . Murar bhfuair tú rud éigin le hithe is dócha go bhfuil ocras ort. Is dócha go bhfuil ocras ort mura bhfuair tú rud éigin le hithe.
May 08 2008, 15:11 PM
scoobytyson "Laoch na nGael" Joined: 18 Apr 2008 Posts: 1,438	Quote That last one should read: mura bhfuair (the six verbs that take ní in the past tense take mura) _________________ Is maith an séideadh sróine do dhuine smuga a fheiceáil ar dhuine eile!
May 08 2008, 15:59 PM
Dun Chaochain "Gaeilgeoir" Joined: 29 Feb 2008 Posts: 476	Quote You can think of it this way-- 'mur' introduces an indirect relative clause. In everything except the past tense, the form therefore is mura (i.e. mur+a), but in the past tense it is murar (i.e. mur+ar), except with the irregular verbs which take ní and an in the past tense, in which case mura. Does that help at all?
May 08 2008, 19:16 PM
braoin "Laoch na nGael" Joined: 25 Feb 2007 Location: Éire Posts: 1,480	Quote quote="Teifeach" - Go raibh maith agat ,, these are the ones i tryed , can you have a wee look through them , Just a few little things, open for discussion of course, but this would be my take on the written work - you have the 'mura's and the 'murar's well sussed I reckon! Murar bhris tú an fhuinneog cé a bhris í? Cé a bhris an fhuinneog murar bhris tú í? Murar ghlan tú an teach cé a ghlan é? Cé a ghlan an teach murar ghlan tusa é? Cé a dhruid an doras murar dhruid tú é? Murar dhruid tú an doras cé a dhruid é? Murar ól tú m'uisce cé a d'ól é? Cé a d'ól m'uisce murar ól tú é? Cé a thiomáin abhaile murar thiomáin tú? Murar thiomáin tú abhaile cé a thiomáin? Murar thóg tú mo leabhar cé a thóg é? Cé a thog mo leabhar murar thóg tú é? Cé a sheinn port murar sheinn tú ceann? Murar sheinn tú port cé a sheinn ceann? Murar rith tú an rás cé a rith é? Cé a rith an rás murar rith tú é? Cé a d'oscail an doras murar oscail tú é? Murar oscail tú an doras cé a d'oscail é? Mura raibh tú ag an rang cé a bhí ann? Cé a bhí ag an rang mura raibh tú ann? Mura ndeachaigh tú go Doire cé a chuaigh? Cé a chuaigh go Doire mura ndeachaigh tú? Mura bhfaca tú Pól aréir cé a chonaic é? Cé a chonaic Pól aréir murar bhfaca tú é? Cé a rinne lón mura ndearna tusa é? Mura ndearna tú lón cé a rinne é? Mura bhfuair tú an t-airgead cé a fuair é? Cé a fuair an t-airgead mura bhfuair tú é? Mura raibh tinneas ort cén fáth nach raibh tú ar scoil? Cén fáth nach raibh tú ar scoil mura raibh tinneas ort? Mura ndeachaigh tú chuig an mbanc cá bhfuair tú an t-airgead? Cá bhfuair tú an t-airgead mura ndeachaigh tú chuig an mbanc? Mura bhfaca tú an clár beidh sé ann anocht arís. Beidh an clár ann anocht arís mura bhfaca tú é. Mura ndearna tú an obair déan anois é. Déan an obair anois mura ndearna tú é . Murar bhfuair tú rud éigin le hithe is dócha go bhfuil ocras ort. Is dócha go bhfuil ocras ort mura bhfuair tú rud éigin le hithe. ...hope that's of some little help to you if only to get the grammatical heads of the Forum together and sort it all out for us! All the best of luck. _________________ Fan le tuairimí ar gach aistriúchán a thabharfar! Wait for discussion on all translations given!!!
May 08 2008, 19:36 PM
Teifeach "Scéalaí Mór" Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 1,920	Quote Thats a great help , if i can only say i rushed them before i left work, still, too many silly mistakes there , and most are Not Typos lol , Murar bhris tú an fhuinneog cé a bhris í? Cé a bhris an fhuinneog murar bhris tú í? Is this essential , i would have normally said it , is it a written rule and a spoken rule or is it optional in either or both ???
May 09 2008, 1:07 AM
braoin "Laoch na nGael" Joined: 25 Feb 2007 Location: Éire Posts: 1,480	Quote Teifeach wrote: Thats a great help , if i can only say i rushed them before i left work, still, too many silly mistakes there , and most are Not Typos lol , Murar bhris tú an fhuinneog cé a bhris í? Cé a bhris an fhuinneog murar bhris tú í? Is this essential , i would have normally said it , is it a written rule and a spoken rule or is it optional in either or both ??? That's a very good question, now that you think of it. I don't know really!! I know that we don't pronounce it very strongly but I think it's there depending on how much of a hurry you were in and how many pints...!! - cé chuaigh amach. As far as I know, in writing I always put - cé a chuaigh amach... ... and if I were talking about who did it or who lit the fire, I can definitely remember - cé a las é, and - cé a rinne é. Even though the 'tine' was feminine there'd be - cé a las é, but that's going down another path altogether!!! ... honestly, there could be someone with another dialect who could completely refute my 'a' and would be just as good. We'll have to wait for other opinions on this one, I think. _________________ Fan le tuairimí ar gach aistriúchán a thabharfar! Wait for discussion on all translations given!!!
May 09 2008, 1:40 AM
Bearn "Gaeilgeoir" Joined: 09 Mar 2008 Posts: 339	Quote For the direct relative, it was originally just lenition, or so I have read. The particle 'do' was added in later (perhaps by analogy from other parts of the language -again I'm not sure, so someone else my verify this). That 'do' then got rounded down to 'a' and is often swallowed _________________ Tír gan seacláid, tír gan anam!
May 09 2008, 8:07 AM
Teifeach "Scéalaí Mór" Joined: 09 Jul 2005 Posts: 1,920	Quote All i can say on the point is that i generally write in the "a" and say it as in cé a dúirt,,,, but at a recent class i was told its optional , mostly in spoken Irish , (isnt a lot of stuff Optional when chating ) especially after a few drinks so i was a bit confused as to which was most natural , and now i have come to the conclusion if both are acceptable , i will use the one i know and was taught at first instead of relearning to drop the " a" cé a rinne , cé a chuaigh , srl ach Go raibh maith agaibh ,
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