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 May 23 2008, 18:03 PM |
wdsci
"Aistritheoir Cíocrach"
Joined: 06 Jun 2004
Location: Stáit Aontaithe Meiriceá (United States of America)
Posts: 17,671
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I don't know, Stair na Gaeilge seems legitimate enough discussion material to me. Part of the charm of IGTF is that it's so hard to keep us on topic 
 David
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| May 23 2008, 20:35 PM |
DoireTrasna
"Craic Pusher"
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Derry & Boston
Posts: 8,163
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| Aibigéal wrote: |
| Dun Chaochain wrote: |
| Where can I sign up for a nice cushy post with An Gúm? |
You wouldn't want it. Drove Séamus Ó Grianna nuts from what I hear. |
I think it was Seosamh who ended up in Letterkenny mental hospital. Do you mean "nuts" as in a casual meaning or like Joe? |
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| May 23 2008, 21:00 PM |
Aibigéal
"Scríbhneoir d'Éigean"
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Location: An Eilvéis
Posts: 20,463
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No, I'd no idea about that. 
I just knew Séamus - it was Séamus, wasn't it? "Máire"? - was bored and frustrated with his job there. ("Cith is Dealán" was one of the books I picked up in Bray last week, so that's probably why his name came to mind.)
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Fáilte roimh cheartúcháin. / I'm still a learner!
 Nach í an chuid súl í! |
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| May 23 2008, 23:14 PM |
Grumpy Old Fogey
"Getting Addicted"
Joined: 10 May 2008
Posts: 60
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Having read the last message from the Árd Rí, I find that there is nothing in it which requires comment except for the final point where he has misinterpreted a previous statement of mine:
| Quote: |
| 7. No, usual usage in Munster is: dia dhuit. In Munster they lenite after a vowel and r (tabhair dhom). So once again 2 dialects against 1 say dia dhuit and the "experts" in Dublin chose dia duit - and according to Lughaidh they don't even say dia duit in the Donegal Gaeltacht. |
I did not deny that 'dia dhuit' is the normal pronunciation in Munster and Ulster. What I said was that in both Munster and Ulster the pronouns derived from 'do' are unlenited whereas in Connacht they are lenited. I also noted that the non-lenited form is the historic one and that it was practically inevitable that the non-lenited forms (dom, duit, dó, etc.) would be selected for the standard. It is true that in Munster the usually unlenited forms are lenited in post-vocalic positions, but this is not the normal practice in Ulster and of course it does not apply in Connacht given that the pronouns are permanently lenited there. In short, the Ulster practice has both history and simplicity to recommend it.
Far from being a 'joke', the Caighdeán Oifigiúil is a modern, coherent, national standard which pays due attention to regional and historic forms. It has served its purpose and stood the test of time well. |
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| May 23 2008, 23:22 PM |
Grumpy Old Fogey
"Getting Addicted"
Joined: 10 May 2008
Posts: 60
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| Aibigéal wrote: |
| Just a point of information: if "caraid" as nominative exists at all (which it may well do - I assume djwebb got his information from somewhere) it is far from ubiquitous. I have always heard "cara" as the nominative form from the Connemara speakers I know (admittedly not a huge sample!) and it seems to be the usual form in the literature as well. |
'Caraid' is used in the west alright, but I take your point. Given that 'caraid' represents both the Classical accusative and dative cases, and is used in both Ulster and Connacht, it is worth asking why 'cara' was selected for the Caighdeán. I suspect it may not be unconnected with the widespread use of 'a chara' as a greeting in correspondence. This may also be influencing local usage (in addition, of course, to the influence of the Caighdeán itself). |
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