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 March 23 2008, 1:39 AM |
gryph
"New Arrival"
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 4
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Hi ...
I've been searching through the forums and found this proverb I like ...
cuimhnigh ar na daoine ón tháinig tú
But I'd like to be able to pronounce this properly - So if anyone can help and spell this out phonetically it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!! |
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| March 23 2008, 1:41 AM |
DoireTrasna
"Giostaire"
Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Location: Derry & Boston
Posts: 4,916
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| March 23 2008, 2:01 AM |
gryph
"New Arrival"
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 4
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| Yeah, cheers, that's what I meant ... I must have lysdexic fingers today ... |
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| March 25 2008, 0:27 AM |
gryph
"New Arrival"
Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 4
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| Can anyone help with this please? |
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| March 25 2008, 1:32 AM |
Bearn
"Gaeilgeoir"
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 291
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Here's a flat and slow way to say it:
kˠʊβʹniː ɛɼ n̪ˠə d̪ˠi:nə oːnˠəɾ hɑːnɪkʲ t̪ˠuː
However in speech, the r is rolled (broad) before the n.
'mhn' in the middle of words varies all over the dialects (mn, ,mr, vr, vn)
Maybe this is what you want:
Kovnee er nah dueenuh ohnar hawnik too
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Tír gan teanga, tír gan ainm! |
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| March 25 2008, 8:02 AM |
Aibigéal
"Aistritheoir Cíocrach"
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Location: An Eilvéis
Posts: 19,072
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"Covnee"? 
Is that Ulster or Munster? I'd be pretty sure it's not pronounced that way anywhere in Connemara at least.
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Fáilte roimh cheartúcháin. / I'm still a learner!
 Nach í an chuid súl í! |
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| March 25 2008, 12:06 PM |
Teifeach
"Scéalaí Mór"
Joined: 09 Jul 2005
Posts: 1,688
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kiv nee air na deenee own are thanik too
Uladh Abú  |
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| March 25 2008, 12:58 PM |
Bearn
"Gaeilgeoir"
Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 291
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Abigéal,
Conemara would be 'mr', I believe. Cuimrigh.
I simply gave a form that runs with the written form.
As for the vowel, trying to get the short u displaced before the i-glide is a little difficult in English (that is why Irish is spelt the way it is...)
Most often, I think it is m followed by a strong slender n or slender r, in most places. v + r is artificial in that it mixes an old pronunciation (v) with a sound change (r) altho both are old enough that they may have been found in the mouth of a native at some stage in history
It was once the case that strong bi-labial v followed by the nasal n rendered the v a slender m (a sort of fortification by accident) and this may have become stereotypified to an m.
m + n has been seen in Donegal, Sligo and Galway in records. Don't know about Munster, but we see from Luimneach as 'Limerick' it must go back a long time and that far south anyway.
The change to r might be part of the Connacht tendency to have stop + n --> stop + r (cnoc --> croc etc). Today, people put the strong slender n there, but in the past they would have used the weak slender n which does not allow a glide vowel in so easy, so it is perhaps from that, we see the n been changed to r (try it yourself, cuimnigh vs cuimnnigh -it is easy to cause the tongue to tap the alveolar ridge on the first)
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Tír gan teanga, tír gan ainm! |
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| March 25 2008, 21:56 PM |
Aibigéal
"Aistritheoir Cíocrach"
Joined: 22 Sep 2004
Location: An Eilvéis
Posts: 19,072
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I wouldn't know about the vowel getting 'displaced' or whether it's always been there - but I'd pronounce it /kimr'ə/.
_________________
Fáilte roimh cheartúcháin. / I'm still a learner!
Nach í an chuid súl í! |
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| March 25 2008, 22:02 PM |
Caffler
"Craiceáilte"
Joined: 26 May 2005
Location: An Ollain san Ísiltír
Posts: 7,316
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| Bearn wrote: |
Abigéal,
Conemara would be 'mr', I believe. Cuimrigh.
I simply gave a form that runs with the written form.
As for the vowel, trying to get the short u displaced before the i-glide is a little difficult in English (that is why Irish is spelt the way it is...)
Most often, I think it is m followed by a strong slender n or slender r, in most places. v + r is artificial in that it mixes an old pronunciation (v) with a sound change (r) altho both are old enough that they may have been found in the mouth of a native at some stage in history
It was once the case that strong bi-labial v followed by the nasal n rendered the v a slender m (a sort of fortification by accident) and this may have become stereotypified to an m.
m + n has been seen in Donegal, Sligo and Galway in records. Don't know about Munster, but we see from Luimneach as 'Limerick' it must go back a long time and that far south anyway.
The change to r might be part of the Connacht tendency to have stop + n --> stop + r (cnoc --> croc etc). Today, people put the strong slender n there, but in the past they would have used the weak slender n which does not allow a glide vowel in so easy, so it is perhaps from that, we see the n been changed to r (try it yourself, cuimnigh vs cuimnnigh -it is easy to cause the tongue to tap the alveolar ridge on the first) |
something i was always afraid to ask...
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an fhírinne gheal a rá is don diabhail leis na fíricí...
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