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 January 12 2006, 14:35 PM |
Richie
"Scéalaí Mór"
Joined: 31 May 2005
Location: Baile Átha Cliath, Éire
Posts: 2,277
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| jamesnp wrote: |
By their parents... had a fascinating lecture on how the Irish killed Irish, not the British, the other day.
-jp |
Oh yeh, I forgot about that... Or maybe I blocked it from my memory 
They had a stick tied to their neck and every time they spoke Irish, the parents (or teacher, whoever caught them) would hit them and put a mark on the stick so the other knew to hit them aswell.
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| January 12 2006, 14:56 PM |
julius
"Andúileach IGTF"
Joined: 28 Oct 2005
Location: Banfield, An Airgintín
Posts: 11,365
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| Richie wrote: |
| jamesnp wrote: |
By their parents... had a fascinating lecture on how the Irish killed Irish, not the British, the other day.
-jp |
Oh yeh, I forgot about that... Or maybe I blocked it from my memory
They had a stick tied to their neck and every time they spoke Irish, the parents (or teacher, whoever caught them) would hit them and put a mark on the stick so the other knew to hit them aswell. |
An "elegant" way to kill the basis of a culture, don't you think? And I'm using elegant in the more mordant way as it's possible. 
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Tá an domhan uile ina stáitse agus teastaíonn cleachtadh go géar ón mórchuid againn.
-Seán Ó Cathasaigh
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The lion and the calf shall lie down together but the calf won't get much sleep.
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Iúil Ó Cofaigh |
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| January 12 2006, 14:59 PM |
Redwolf
"Ard-Banríon na Ráiméise"
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Poblacht California
Posts: 41,524
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| jamesnp wrote: |
| Richie wrote: |
| or forced to speak English. |
By their parents... had a fascinating lecture on how the Irish killed Irish, not the British, the other day.
-jp |
Of course the REASON their parents cooperated in this is because it was the only way their children could get an education in the English-run national schools (and it was at the behest of the English schoolmaster)...and the parents, like parents everywhere, hoped they could give their children (and, perhaps, ultimately, their nation) a better life by doing so. It was a final nail in an English-built coffin.
Redwolf
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Is fearr Gaeilge bhriste ná Béarla cliste
Is fearr Gaeilge na scoile ná gan Gaeilge ar bith |
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| January 12 2006, 15:00 PM |
PJ
"Scéalaí Mór"
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 2,953
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I had read that there were some recordings of last speakers of the Leinster dialect, so that would be something to look into James.
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Trí ghalar gan náire: Grá, tochas agus tart  |
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| January 12 2006, 15:14 PM |
JSmith13
"Scríbhneoir d'Éigean"
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Location: Sa Stáisiún Dóiteáin anois....arís!!
Posts: 20,527
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| PJ wrote: |
| I had read that there were some recordings of last speakers of the Leinster dialect, so that would be something to look into James. |
Tá áthas orm go gcloise mé sin. 
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Beidh ár lá linn.......go luath!!
I'm a beginner. Wait for more input with my translations.
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| January 12 2006, 15:19 PM |
smaointe
"Scéalaí Mór"
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Location: Co. Dhoire, Éire
Posts: 1,575
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| Quote: |
Richie wrote:
or forced to speak English.
By their parents... had a fascinating lecture on how the Irish killed Irish, not the British, the other day.
-jp
|
Yea, right - all the parents woke up one day and said 'Lets make our kids talk English or we'll beat them with a stick'!
I think you'll need a few more lectures, especially the history ones!
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"Cuidíonn achan deor" arsa an tseanbhean, agus í ag déanamh a múin san fharraige...
Last edited by smaointe on January 12 2006, 15:25 PM; edited 1 time in total |
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| January 12 2006, 15:21 PM |
JSmith13
"Scríbhneoir d'Éigean"
Joined: 14 Apr 2003
Location: Sa Stáisiún Dóiteáin anois....arís!!
Posts: 20,527
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| smaointe wrote: |
| Quote: |
Richie wrote:
or forced to speak English.
By their parents... had a fascinating lecture on how the Irish killed Irish, not the British, the other day.
-jp
|
Yea, right - all the parents woke up one day and said 'Lets make our kids talk Irish or we'll beat them with a stick'!
I think you'll need a few more lectures, especially the history ones! |
_________________
Beidh ár lá linn.......go luath!!
I'm a beginner. Wait for more input with my translations.
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| January 12 2006, 15:41 PM |
antaine1
"Gaeilgeoir"
Joined: 18 Sep 2004
Location: Hazlet, NJ
Posts: 105
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| smaointe wrote: |
| Quote: |
Richie wrote:
or forced to speak English.
By their parents... had a fascinating lecture on how the Irish killed Irish, not the British, the other day.
-jp
|
Yea, right - all the parents woke up one day and said 'Lets make our kids talk English or we'll beat them with a stick'!
I think you'll need a few more lectures, especially the history ones! |
It wasn't as overnight as that. We had the same thing happen in the US with parents wanting their kids to speak english and purposelly killing the language in their household, and not just the Irish, either... |
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| January 12 2006, 15:47 PM |
jamesnp
"Scéalaí Mór"
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Location: Cill Iníon Léinín
Posts: 2,997
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| smaointe wrote: |
| Quote: |
Richie wrote:
or forced to speak English.
By their parents... had a fascinating lecture on how the Irish killed Irish, not the British, the other day.
-jp
|
Yea, right - all the parents woke up one day and said 'Lets make our kids talk English or we'll beat them with a stick'!
I think you'll need a few more lectures, especially the history ones! |
At the time the parents recognized that the only way their offspring would get out of the economic climate of Ireland would be to go to either to America or Britain. The parents instigated the Bata Scóir or Scórín scheme themselves and refused to speak Irish what-so-ever with their children which as you can imagine was a terrible situation for the children, especially if they didn't have siblings or friends around. The school master would then, at the request of the parents, check the scóirín and administer punishment the next day. The Bata Scóir was optional, a choice of the parents, and the use of English was only required in school.
There's no doubt the British had no interest what-so-ever in keeping Irish in use, but the real people that caused the decline were the speakers of Irish themselves. They had no interest in keeping it alive either; English was considered the language of the wealthy, why would you inflict the language of the peasants, Irish, on your children?
-jp |
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| January 12 2006, 16:35 PM |
smaointe
"Scéalaí Mór"
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Location: Co. Dhoire, Éire
Posts: 1,575
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| jamesnp wrote: |
| smaointe wrote: |
| Quote: |
Richie wrote:
or forced to speak English.
By their parents... had a fascinating lecture on how the Irish killed Irish, not the British, the other day.
-jp
|
Yea, right - all the parents woke up one day and said 'Lets make our kids talk English or we'll beat them with a stick'!
I think you'll need a few more lectures, especially the history ones! |
At the time the parents recognized that the only way their offspring would get out of the economic climate of Ireland would be to go to either to America or Britain. The parents instigated the Bata Scóir or Scórín scheme themselves and refused to speak Irish what-so-ever with their children which as you can imagine was a terrible situation for the children, especially if they didn't have siblings or friends around. The school master would then, at the request of the parents, check the scóirín and administer punishment the next day. The Bata Scóir was optional, a choice of the parents, and the use of English was only required in school.
There's no doubt the British had no interest what-so-ever in keeping Irish in use, but the real people that caused the decline were the speakers of Irish themselves. They had no interest in keeping it alive either; English was considered the language of the wealthy, why would you inflict the language of the peasants, Irish, on your children?
-jp |
That was a very naive statement
English would not have been the language of the wealthy in Ireland (or of the court/law in Ireland) if the English hadn't dispossessed the (wealthy) Irish and planted it with non Irish.
You'll be telling me next that the English policy in Ireland wasn't responsible for the victims of An Gorta Mór!
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"Cuidíonn achan deor" arsa an tseanbhean, agus í ag déanamh a múin san fharraige... |
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