Irish Translation Forum

January 27 2010, 18:30 PM

Andy snijders wrote:PM?

Private Message

January 28 2010, 3:33 AM

oh no i was wondering if we needed to send another PM...

January 28 2010, 3:36 AM

Looking back at what I just suggested on the prior page, I'm thinking maybe it would be better in the habitual tense: Ní bhíonn pléisiúr ann gan phian.

January 28 2010, 11:22 AM

So many answers and we are not getting anywhere

January 28 2010, 13:59 PM

kevin45sf wrote:I looked back at the responses, and it appeared that Breandán (whose Irish is very good - much better than mine) wasn't quite comfortable with Ní pléisiúr gan phian. Here's a modification which might help, and others can comment on it (my additions in red):
Níl pléisiúr ann gan phian.

Adding the "L" at the end of ní changes the verbal approach. The revised phrase literally means "There is no pleasure there without pain". The "there" bit sounds slightly odd in English, but not in Irish -- the word ann is frequently used in that way.

Kevin, please rest assured that your Irish is much, much better than mine.

I was really asking if someone like Bríd or braoin felt anything strange about Ní pléisiúr gan phian. It is just an inkling I had, but may actually be nothing at all. My original question was:

Breandán wrote:I don't have enough confidence to say if Ní pléisiúr gan phian is correct or not. It looks like it might say "It's not a pleasure without (some) pain" which might shift the emphasis a little to a masochistic meaning rather than a warning like "no pain, no gain." On the other hand, it might say exactly what was intended. Hopefully someone more advanced can help is with that...

I do feel Níl pléisiúr ann gan phian does get around the (perceived) problem, and Ní bhíonn pléisiúr ann gan phian is even better.

So, Bríd or braoin, was there anything wrong with Ní pléisiúr gan phian? And if so, does Ní bhíonn pléisiúr ann gan phian fix it?

January 28 2010, 23:21 PM

Breandán wrote:Ní pléisiúr gan phian

I wouldnt lenite "pian".
saying it that way makes pléisiúr have/own the pain.

January 28 2010, 23:38 PM

I agree, I wouldn't lenite pian either.

gan only lenites abstract nouns such as:

gan mhaith
gan bhrón
gan mhaitheas

January 29 2010, 1:05 AM

I hate to drag this out further but

Benjamin is correct ..but Pain is abstract and should be lenited
A noun that is abstract is an aspect, concept, idea, experience, state of being, trait, quality, feeling, or other entity that cannot be experienced with the five senses.
http://www.yourdictionary.com/grammar-r ... Nouns.html

Read List...applies in English Anyhoo

IMWTK

January 31 2010, 20:34 PM

Bump for confirmation on SG gun eagal gun chronachadh.

So, Bríd or braoin, was there anything wrong with Ní pléisiúr gan phian? And if so, does Ní bhíonn pléisiúr ann gan phian fix it?

February 02 2010, 20:35 PM

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