Irish Translation Forum

Can anyone tell me if the rules for verbal adjectives follow patterns please?
ie. verbs ending in -l, -n, -s, -ch, -d, : add -ta or -te
verbs ending in -b, -c, -g, -m, -p, -r: add -tha or -the
verbs ending in -bh, -mh, : remove -bh or -mh and add -fa
verbs ending in -t: add -a or -e
verbs ending in -gh: 1syllable - remove -gh and add -ta or -te, 2syllable - remove -gh and add -tha or -the
verbs ending in -th:slender - remove -th and add -e,
exceptions; verbs that are made broad and -tha is added: cuir, foghlaim. siúil, taispeáin
Irregulars: abair, fógair, imir, inis, tabhair, tar, téigh, ráite, fógartha, imeartha, inste, tugtha, tagtha, dulta
what happens broad verbs ending in -th? That is, if there are any?
Have I missed any rules?


Also, from my studies, I think that some verbal nouns have similar endings but do not follow patterns and therefore have to be learned - is this right or have I failed to see the patterns?

Thank you.

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The verbal adjective follows pretty reliable patterns. The rules I have "discovered" (I taught myself most of this kind of stuff) seem largely identical to yours:

Verbal adjective
Type 1: stem + ta or te
Except: tha or the after b, c, f, g, m, p, r
Except: Drop bh or mh and add fa

Type 2: stem + ithe
Except: te after l, n, r (don’t syncopate)


For the verbal noun, there are only general guidelines as far as I know. Here's what I "discovered":

Type 1: stem + adh
Type 2: stem + ú
Verbs ending in -(e)áil: stem (no ending)
Verbs ending in slender l, n, r: stem + t

It's helpful to do this sort of analysis, but I don't know that I'd bother memorising those particular rules. I figured out those rules about ten years ago, promptly forgot them, and have never needed to refer to them. Instead I rely on:

Wombat's Unified Theory of Verbal Adjectives and Nouns (WUTVAN)
Think of a similar word (i.e., one that ends with the same bunch of letters) whose verbal noun or verbal adjective you do know. Chances are the verbal noun or adjective for the "new" word follows the same pattern.

That's much easier to remember, and it's pretty reliable. For example, if I wanted to know the verbal noun for guigh:

Hmm... suigh -> suí (vn) and suite (va)
So probably guigh -> guí (vn) and guite (va)

But you need to take fadas into account when you talk about words being "similar". You'd be totally wrong if you used this as your model:
Hmm... crúigh -> crú (vn) and crúite (va)
So... gu??? gú??? XXXXX

This has been a public service announcement from Wombats Who Want To Help Eager People Avoid Wasting Time Memorising a Lot Of Stuff (WWWTHEPAWTMLOS)

..............

Th > te
Caith > caite

Go raibh míle maith agaibh

I have put together a large list of verbal nouns and adjectives now and I just need to fix a few so please tell me any corrections. I tried twice to space it out to make it more legible but when I submit it, it looks like this - sorry
Go raibh míle maith agaibh.

aithin ag aithint aitheanta
codail ag codladh codalta/codailte?
fógair ag fógairt fógairthe/fogartha?
freagair ag freagairt freagartha
beir ag breith béirthe
bí ag bhéith ???
cloígh ag cloí cloíte
cogain ag cogaint cogainte
cogair ag cogair cogairthe
crúigh ag crú crúite
díbir ag díbirt díbrithe
éag ag éag éagtha
faigh ag fáil faighte
fan ag fanacht fanta
fiuch ag fiuchadh fiuchta
fulaing ag fulaingt fulaingthe
gabh ag gabháil gafa
goin ag goin gointe or gonta
ith ag ithe ite
lig ag ligean/ligint? ligthe
loit ag lot loite
lorg ag lorg lorgtha
oirmhinnigh ag oirmhinniú oirmhinnithe
ollaigh ag ollú ollaithe
onnmhairigh ag onnmhairiú onnmhairithe
snámh ag snámh snáfa
toitrigh ag toitriú toitrithe
tomhais ag tomhas tomhaiste
trácht ag trácht tráchta
tréig ag tréigean tréigthe

The list I have has a few hundred verbs so if it would be a useful resource on here, let me know how to do that - it is an excel document.

fatchops75 wrote:The list I have has a few hundred verbs so if it would be a useful resource on here, let me know how to do that - it is an excel document.

I'm not sure of the best way. Possibly put it online and post a link to it here. Or use box.net or Scribd.
There is also now an attachment option in the posting box.

ag bheith doesn't exist.

cloíte

faighte

gafa

díbeartha ???

gonta ???

Last two may be wrong. I don't have my dictionary with me.