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Post June 13 2009, 10:40 AM
Teifeach
Craiceáilte
 
Posts: 7359
The past tense irregular Verbs

1. Come : Tar - Q : Did you come ? Ar tháinig tú ?
Answers: Yes - Tháinig . . No - Níor tháinig.

2. Hear : Cluin - Q : Did you hear ? Ar chuala tú?
Answers : Yes - Chuala .. No - Níor chuala.

3. Eat : Ith - Q : Did you eat ? Ar ith tú ?
Answers : Yes - d’ith . . No - Níor ith.

4. *See : Feic - Q : Did you see ? An bhfaca tú ?
Answers : Yes - Chonaic . .No - Ní fhaca.

5. Say : Abair - Q : Did you say ? Ar dhúirt tú ?
Answers : Yes - Dúirt . . No - Níor dhúirt.

6. *Go : Téigh - Q : Did you go ? An ndeachaigh tú ?
Answers : Yes - Chuaigh . . No - Ní dheachaigh.

7. *Get : Faigh - Q : Did you get ? An bhfuair tú ?
Answers : Yes - Fuair . . No - Ní bhfuair.

8. Give : Tabhair - Q : Did you give ? Ar thug tú ?
Answers : Yes - Thug . . No - Níor thug.

9. *Be : Bí - Q : Were you ? An raibh tú ?
Answers : Yes - Bhí . . No - Ní raibh.

10. Catch : Beir (ar) - Q : Did you catch ? Ar rug tú ar ?
Answers : Yes - Rug . . No - Níor rug.


11. *Do : Make : Déan - Q : Did you do/make ? An ndearna tú ?
Answers : Yes - Rinne . . No - Ní dhearna.

* The Negative of An is Nach.
Nach bhfaca tú ? etc

The Negative of Ar is Nár.
Nár tháinig tú? etc

this is in reply to a post that i was asked to do , any thoughts on it !!

 
Post June 13 2009, 11:45 AM
Pwyll2
Giostaire
 
Posts: 3070
I think the same thing as on Daltaí, ie. why is there the non-standard "ar dhúirt" among all the other standard forms? If you want to give Ulster forms, give them if you know them, if you want to give standard forms, give them, but why 10 standard forms and 1 Ulster form?...
Is fearr Gaeilg chliste ná Gaeilg bhriste

Learn the sounds of Irish here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/i ... ounds.html & http://annexedicoirlfr.ifrance.com/

Post June 13 2009, 11:56 AM
Teifeach
Craiceáilte
 
Posts: 7359
Pwyll2 wrote:I think the same thing as on Daltaí, ie. why is there the non-standard "ar dhúirt" among all the other standard forms? If you want to give Ulster forms, give them if you know them, if you want to give standard forms, give them, but why 10 standard forms and 1 Ulster form?...


im not sure how you view these , Maybe as a Linguist , i view them as what is said on the Streets , by me and all i speak with ,

i am well aware that
An ndúirt tú
is the CO , but its seldom used , thats why i include Ar dhúirt tú, this is not for a book or anythg , its for people who would like to speak Irish an Be Understood , i hope that this clears it up for you.

Post June 13 2009, 12:16 PM
DoireTrasna
Aistritheoir Cíocrach
 
Posts: 15335
an easy way to remember which particle is used with each form (for (say) indirect speech and other clauses etc)

ní, an, nach, go, nach

níor, ar, nár, gur, nár

Post June 13 2009, 13:30 PM
Pwyll2
Giostaire
 
Posts: 3070
im not sure how you view these , Maybe as a Linguist , i view them as what is said on the Streets , by me and all i speak with ,


Then maybe you may say these forms are those that are used by Derry people or something like that, so learners know what you give. I'm sure there are learners who'd wonder why you wrote "ar dhúirt", since it's not to be found in learning books.
What I want is to help learners to understand things clearly. If one mixes up forms from everywhere without saying what is what and what comes from where, learners will be confused.

i am well aware that
An ndúirt tú
is the CO , but its seldom used ,


seldom used by you maybe...
Since it's standard, it's what is taught most of the time so it's what most learners know or use.

thats why i include Ar dhúirt tú, this is not for a book or anythg , its for people who would like to speak Irish an Be Understood , i hope that this clears it up for you.


Once again, whatever dialect one speaks, he will be understood anyway, so one may say an ndúirt tú, ar úrt tú, an ndúraís or whatever, he'll be understood, so using this or that form to be understood is not an argument.
Is fearr Gaeilg chliste ná Gaeilg bhriste

Learn the sounds of Irish here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/i ... ounds.html & http://annexedicoirlfr.ifrance.com/

Post June 13 2009, 13:43 PM
Teifeach
Craiceáilte
 
Posts: 7359
questions can only be answered when asked , like where is " Ar dhúirt tú ? used. Derry ( i.e Ulster )ppl use it amongst many others, which Dialect do you use ?

Post June 13 2009, 14:14 PM
scoobytyson
Craiceáilte
 
Posts: 6550
A Theifigh, a chara. You asked for any thoughts. Mine are the same as Pwyll2's for what it's worth. I agree of course that spoken Irish does not have to conform to the CO and if it is to be like any one real dialect, it probably shouldn't conform.
The money-grabbing wankers who control this site can ban me too. Talk about recruiting trolls! I've spent enough time putting money in their pockets.

Post June 13 2009, 14:23 PM
Teifeach
Craiceáilte
 
Posts: 7359
scoobytyson wrote:A Theifigh, a chara. You asked for any thoughts. Mine are the same as Pwyll2's for what it's worth. I agree of course that spoken Irish does not have to conform to the CO and if it is to be like any one real dialect, it probably shouldn't conform.

its an open foram , and we are all entitled to out opinions , as i wrote them i thought which to use , i choose Ar dhúirt tú ? , as thats what i use and teach,
by the same thought , should i have also earlier wrote
Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú ? / instead of Cad é mar atá tú ? or is this a diff point ?

Post June 13 2009, 15:11 PM
scoobytyson
Craiceáilte
 
Posts: 6550
Teifeach wrote:
scoobytyson wrote:A Theifigh, a chara. You asked for any thoughts. Mine are the same as Pwyll2's for what it's worth. I agree of course that spoken Irish does not have to conform to the CO and if it is to be like any one real dialect, it probably shouldn't conform.

its an open foram , and we are all entitled to out opinions , as i wrote them i thought which to use , i choose Ar dhúirt tú ? , as thats what i use and teach,
by the same thought , should i have also earlier wrote
Cén chaoi a bhfuil tú ? / instead of Cad é mar atá tú ? or is this a diff point ?


The various forms of the verbs is pretty much nailed down by the CO (it is the official standard for grammar and spelling after all). Choice of words and phrases is an entirely different matter, and I think it is unfair of those who repeatedly criticise the CO for 'not allowing' this, that and the other when it has nothing whatsoever to do with the Caighdeán. I suppose there is the argument that if it's not in FGB, then it may not be accepted. FGB is a good source but could not realistically contain a whole language - not to mention a still-evolving one.
The money-grabbing wankers who control this site can ban me too. Talk about recruiting trolls! I've spent enough time putting money in their pockets.

Post June 13 2009, 15:18 PM
Teifeach
Craiceáilte
 
Posts: 7359
sorry Scooby but your first post confused me , and your second one even more , are you sayin that i am criticising the CO , I honestly couldnt care less which Dialeact a person uses , weather it be caidgean or not ,the fact that is is Irish suits me fine , as for my initial question , were these verbs ok , and withstanding the an nd/ar dh debate , i guess they are , GRMA


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