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Lamh dearg Eirin abu...

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Post December 18 2007, 7:32 AM
deilf
Getting Addicted
 
Posts: 94
The "war cry" of the O'Neill family is "Lamh dearg Eirin abu," which I find most-often translated as "The Red Hand of Ireland Forever."

First, is that the correct translation? How is it pronounced?

And, how would I say "The Red Hand of O'Neill Forever" or "The Red Hand of the O'Neills Forever" in Irish?

And, if anyone can answer, would I say "O'Neill" "Ó Néill" "Ui Neill" or "Uá Niáll" ?
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Post December 18 2007, 8:50 AM
The Goy from Japan
Craiceáilte
 
Posts: 5634
Lámh Dearg Éirinn Abú (you need the accents in there)

In my opinion, I think you would not want to say "the Red Hand of O'Neill" since it's understood that "Lámh dearg Éirinn" (the family motto) means the O'Neill family. On the other hand, I don't think there's any harm for me to give you my attempt at it:

Lámh Dearg Uí Néill Abú - pronunciation (LAAV JAreg ee NAIL aBOO)

or simply

Ua Néill Abú (wah NAIL aBOO)

Wait for others' comments.

Cheers

Ua Céin Abú

Post December 18 2007, 14:21 PM
Barnaí
Laoch na nGael
 
Posts: 904
Would you say "Lámh Dearg Éirinn Abú"?

I know one Ó Neill motto is "Lámh Dearg Éirinn" Red Hand for Ireland.

I'd be tempted to say Lámh Dearg Éireann Abú.
Tír Eoghain Abú

Gramadach Uafásach

Post December 18 2007, 14:53 PM
An Treasach
Scéalaí Mór
 
Posts: 2161
Lámh is feminine so we'll be wanting Lámh Dhearg anyway :wink:

Post December 18 2007, 18:36 PM
Pwyll2
Giostaire
 
Posts: 3070
I know one Ó Neill motto is "Lámh Dearg Éirinn" Red Hand for Ireland.


Éire in the dative case without preposition? A preposition must be missing there. d’Éirinn, probably.

Ua Néill Abú (wah NAIL aBOO)


The O’Neills = na Niallaigh (I think), or Clann Uí Néill. Of the O’Neills: na Niallach, or Chlann Uí Néill

LAAV JAreg ee NAIL aBOO


I don't know in what dialect you would pronounce like that: laav is Munster, jareg is more Ulster.

So I'd say:

Lámh dhearg d’Éirinn abú (for Ireland)
Lámh dhearg Uí Néill abú (of O'Neill)
Lámh dhearg na Niallach abú (of the O'Neills)
Lámh dhearg Chlann Uí Néill abú (of the O'Neills)

Pronounced:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/12/6/ ... %20etc.mp3
Is fearr Gaeilg chliste ná Gaeilg bhriste

Learn the sounds of Irish here: http://loig.cheveau.ifrance.com/irish/i ... ounds.html & http://annexedicoirlfr.ifrance.com/

Post December 18 2007, 19:58 PM
deilf
Getting Addicted
 
Posts: 94
Thanks everyone. So it looks like I've got all of the "Lámh dhearg" options now.

I may say "Lámh dhearg d’Éirinn abú" and then add "Ua Néill Abú. What would be the correct ways to say this with Uí Néill, na Niallach, and Chlann Uí Néill? Would they simply be:

    Uí Néill abú.
    na Niallach abú.
    Chlann Uí Néill abú.

And, even if they all were grammatically correct, any advice on which of the three would be the most appropriate?
Hibernior Hibernioribus

Post December 18 2007, 20:13 PM
Tiarnan2
Andúileach IGTF
 
Posts: 14816
Pwyll2 wrote:
I know one Ó Neill motto is "Lámh Dearg Éirinn" Red Hand for Ireland.


Éire in the dative case without preposition? A preposition must be missing there. d’Éirinn, probably.



I don't know in what dialect you would pronounce like that: laav is Munster, jareg is more Ulster.


If laav is pronounced layve Id say Lawv is more common in Munster.
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Post December 19 2007, 1:34 AM
DoireTrasna
Aistritheoir Cíocrach
 
Posts: 15335
deilf wrote:Thanks everyone. So it looks like I've got all of the "Lámh dhearg" options now.

I may say "Lámh dhearg d’Éirinn abú" and then add "Ua Néill Abú. What would be the correct ways to say this with Uí Néill, na Niallach, and Chlann Uí Néill? Would they simply be:

    Uí Néill abú.
    na Niallach abú.
    Chlann Uí Néill abú.
And, even if they all were grammatically correct, any advice on which of the three would be the most appropriate?

You've taken them all out of context, so now, none of these 3 is grammatically correct

Post December 19 2007, 3:03 AM
The Goy from Japan
Craiceáilte
 
Posts: 5634
pwyll2 wrote:
TGFJ wrote:LAAV JAreg ee NAIL aBOO


I don't know in what dialect you would pronounce like that: laav is Munster, jareg is more Ulster.


Oh, so there IS something you don't know. I'll be damned.

That's the way I would say the motto as it was written on the crest, right or wrong, because I learned Munster Irish first. And people would say "dearg" that way in an Rinn. Also, the standard pronunciation given for "lámh" is close enough to what I gave to write it "laav" without getting heady or too perfect about it. If you say "laav" to any Irish speaker, they will know what you are talking about especially in context.

The form "Éirinn" has been used for both common and genitive, as well as the dative in some cases. And yes with no preposition. Maybe it's been misused or misspelled (sp?) but it has been done. Want some examples? Nah, you can look them up yourself. :P

OK, to be completely grammatically correct (zzz) I'd go with "Lámh Dhearg na hÉireann". Any mention of O'Neill (in the singular, not the plural) in that would seem redundant.

Post December 19 2007, 5:06 AM
deilf
Getting Addicted
 
Posts: 94
DoireTrasna wrote:You've taken them all out of context, so now, none of these 3 is grammatically correct


As I suspected, and why I asked.

And the correct form would be?
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