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Post February 08 2007, 15:49 PM
iora_rua
Craiceáilte
 
Posts: 5730
How about as they put it in Psalm 125 (with a tweak):

Síocháin go raibh ar talamh!

Peace be upon earth!

(About the use of the article, see psalm 120:6:

Is fada atá m'anam ag lonnú leis an dream ar fuath leo an tsíocháin

Too long have I lived among those who hate peace.

I wouldn't leave the article out... but as usual, maybe it's just me ;))
Note that I am only a learner of Irish. Wait for confirmations!
An chéad sagart, ba é sin an chéad bithiúnach a bhuail leis an gcéad amadán. Voltaire
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Post February 08 2007, 16:13 PM
Christy Quinn.
Craiceáilte
 
Posts: 6024
iora_rua wrote:How about as they put it in Psalm 125 (with a tweak):

Síocháin go raibh ar talamh!

Peace be upon earth!

(About the use of the article, see psalm 120:6:

Is fada atá m'anam ag lonnú leis an dream ar fuath leo an tsíocháin

Too long have I lived among those who hate peace.

I wouldn't leave the article out... but as usual, maybe it's just me ;))

Hi i kinda wondered about ''Talamh'' or Domhan'' This is from ''An Leabhar Aifrinn.
''Agus ar domhan si/othcháin'' '' Et in terra pax'' it is old spelling but the point is the use of ''Domhan'' Christy
Last edited by Christy Quinn. on February 08 2007, 16:32 PM, edited 1 time in total.
Wait for more to be sure.
Quae Sursum volo videre.
The Mouth from the South.
An sean duine liath.

Post February 08 2007, 16:15 PM
Aibigéal
Scríbhneoir d'Éigean
 
Posts: 20550
hapykamprz@aol.com wrote:I've got síocháin in my translation too.... what is the correct version? the tsíocháin or just síocháin? what difference does the t make? i've seen it both ways...
thanks for the clarification... Kelly :)

The root form of the word is "síocháin."

The "t" is an initial mutation that affects words starting with "s" under certain circumstances. In this case, it's needed because "síocháin" is a feminine noun, in the nominative singular, and is preceded by the definite article ("an"). The fact it's a cloudy Thursday and within a week of the full moon doesn't hurt either. :)

In other grammatical contexts, you might see the same word change to "shíocháin," "síochána" or "shíochána."

Aibigéal

Post February 08 2007, 16:21 PM
hapykamprz@aol.com
New Arrival
 
Posts: 7
thanks!

Post February 08 2007, 16:29 PM
iora_rua
Craiceáilte
 
Posts: 5730
This is a wellknown passage from my Irish bible:

Glóir do Dhia in uachtar neimhe,
agus síocháin ar talamh don mhuintir ar a bhfuil a ghnaoi


so, probably they're interchangeable...
Note that I am only a learner of Irish. Wait for confirmations!
An chéad sagart, ba é sin an chéad bithiúnach a bhuail leis an gcéad amadán. Voltaire
Image

Post February 08 2007, 16:38 PM
Aibigéal
Scríbhneoir d'Éigean
 
Posts: 20550
iora_rua wrote:How about as they put it in Psalm 125 (with a tweak):

Síocháin go raibh ar talamh!

Peace be upon earth!

(About the use of the article, see psalm 120:6:

Is fada atá m'anam ag lonnú leis an dream ar fuath leo an tsíocháin

Too long have I lived among those who hate peace.

I wouldn't leave the article out... but as usual, maybe it's just me ;))

I like that structure. :zustimm:

As for the article, the best rationale I can invent would be that "an tsíocháin" is used to refer to the abstract concept of peace; plain "síocháin" indicates a state of peace (actual or imagined). At any rate I've run through a lot of mental examples, and that aligns reasonably well with what feels natural to me.

I've only been learning for two years though, so "what seems natural to me" may not be a reliable guide! I'd feel better if we could get someone more fluent to weigh in on this.

Post February 08 2007, 16:44 PM
Christy Quinn.
Craiceáilte
 
Posts: 6024
iora_rua wrote:This is a wellknown passage from my Irish bible:

Glóir do Dhia in uachtar neimhe,
agus síocháin ar talamh don mhuintir ar a bhfuil a ghnaoi


so, probably they're interchangeable...


Hi ,a chara thanks, I felt I should go with ''Talamh'' but checked and found ''Domhan'' Lá sneachta anseo i Londain, saor agam. :ja: Christy
Wait for more to be sure.
Quae Sursum volo videre.
The Mouth from the South.
An sean duine liath.

Post February 08 2007, 17:22 PM
Redwolf
Ard-Banríon na Ráiméise
 
Posts: 57599
The Bible seems to use both "domhan" and "talamh" for "earth" (in the meaning of "the world" rather than just "dirt"). My sense is that "talamh" is used when distinguishing earth from heaven (for example, in the Gloria Patri..."glory to God in the highest and peace to his people on earth") and "domhan" when speaking of the world in general. That's why I went with "talamh"...but again, it could be wrong, or it could be that they're interchangeable. I'm just going on the sense I'm getting from what I've seen in the Bible and in mass translations.

Redwolf

Post February 09 2007, 0:22 AM
Seán a'Chóta
Scéalaí Mór
 
Posts: 2763
Aibigéal wrote:As for the article, the best rationale I can invent would be that "an tsíocháin" is used to refer to the abstract concept of peace; plain "síocháin" indicates a state of peace (actual or imagined). At any rate I've run through a lot of mental examples, and that aligns reasonably well with what feels natural to me.

Hmm, I might quibble with the "abstract" tag. I'd prefer "general", because general concepts can be applied in concrete circumstances. For example, if you wanted to accuse some world leader (and I haven't mentioned anyone!) of "crimes against peace", you'd have to say "coireanna i gcoinne na síochána". On the other hand, if you were just talking about a particular period characterised by an absence of conflict, you wouldn't use the article: "bhí síocháin sa tír an uair úd".

In the current case, either could be used depending on the perspective of the speaker, but "an tsíocháin" would sound more idealistic, "síocháin" more pragmatic.
"Níl ach líon beag fear ar aithne againn, agus líon mór cótaí is brístí." Thoreau

Post February 09 2007, 0:25 AM
Seán a'Chóta
Scéalaí Mór
 
Posts: 2763
Redwolf wrote:The Bible seems to use both "domhan" and "talamh" for "earth" (in the meaning of "the world" rather than just "dirt"). My sense is that "talamh" is used when distinguishing earth from heaven (for example, in the Gloria Patri..."glory to God in the highest and peace to his people on earth") and "domhan" when speaking of the world in general. That's why I went with "talamh"...but again, it could be wrong, or it could be that they're interchangeable. I'm just going on the sense I'm getting from what I've seen in the Bible and in mass translations.

Redwolf

Yes, "talamh" is "earth" as opposed to "heaven". I wouldn't use "talamh" to mean "earth" as opposed to "mars" though.
"Níl ach líon beag fear ar aithne againn, agus líon mór cótaí is brístí." Thoreau


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