Irish Translation Forum

A chairde,

On the question of the perfect language, it would only exist in theory. That said, I think Esperanto has got a lot going for it. It's got a simple, logical and very flexible grammar/syntax which lends itself extremely well to translation (better than any other spoken language I know of, natural or constructed). It makes an excellent go-between language.

Where are these women who think Irish is sexy?!

Ironically, a lot of women in the Gaeltacht (whose first language is Irish) think that Irish is rough and uncouth-sounding. They (apparently) think that Irish is only the language of old people and rough-mannered farmers from the back of beyond (they're wrong, of course). A lot of young women in the Gaeltacht would look down on a man who spoke Irish all the time (a friend of mine broke up with his girlfriend over this issue). I also know men who are more comfortable speaking Irish but who feel compelled to speak English when they're chatting up women (whose first language is also Irish) so as to show that they're not uncouth and lacking in education.

I suppose I'm thinking of the Connemara Gaeltacht in particular here (because that's what I know best) but I would expect to encounter some of the same attitudes in other Gaeltachtaí. I think TG4 (the Irish-language television station) has made Irish trendier and 'sexier' to some extent (I've heard young women in the Gaeltacht speaking Irish who would only have spoken English together before they got jobs with TG4) but the old attitudes die hard in the Gaeltacht (the association of Irish with poverty and backwardness, etc.).

The whole issue of language choice in the Gaeltacht is (extremely) complex.

I personally think that Irish can sound very sexy in the mouth of a woman* (just as English can). Being able to speak Irish well definitely enhances a woman's attractiveness in my eyes. Tadhg Mac Dhonnagáin released a (really funny) song a good few years ago about a guy who would reject women because their Irish grammar was terrible (i.e. they would mangle the genitive).

Call me a sad ___ but I find that a girl's ability to speak Irish well (i.e use good grammar/the genitive correctly, etc.) definitely enhances her attractiveness. I love it when women address me using the vocative (especially when Gaoth Dobhair women call me 'a thaisce' . Yeah, I'm turned on by the vocative - is that sad or what? )

I've had this idea for a character in a comedy sketch (probably inspired by both Tadhg Mac Dhonnagáin's song and by Gomez from the Addam's Family) who gets turned on when his girlfriend or wife speaks to him in Irish and uses expressions in the genitive and the vocative (yeah, this character would be based on myself, in this aspect ).

I feel sad when I see a young woman from the Gaeltacht who's married or engaged to a fella who has no interest in Irish whatsoever. You know for a fact that if they have kids that they'll definitely not be brought up speaking Irish (especially if they live outside of the Gaeltacht). On the other hand, when I hear a young woman in the Gaeltacht speaking Irish to her baby or young child(ren), it warms my heart.

*especially when she's singing sean-nós. Though sean-nós singing would have very negative and unattractive associations in many people's minds (in Ireland), I think a young woman from the Gaeltacht singing sean-nós (well) is extremely sexy (I think there's something inherently erotic about the vocal ornamentation you get in sean-nós singing, especially sean-nós singing from Connemara, but maybe that's just me)

A chairde,

Here's the Tadhg Mac Dhonnagáin song I was referring to and here's the link if ye want to listen to it:

http://www.futafata.com/SolasGorm.html#Amhran

Amhrán an Ghaeilgeora Mhóir

Bhí mise i ngrá le cailín tráth
Cailín a bhris mo chroí
An cailín ab áille ag siúl na sráide
A leithéidí ní fhaca tú riamh
Agus bheimís pósta agus sásta inniu
Bheadh páistí ar fud an tí
Ag gaeilgeoireacht ó dhubh go dubh
Murach a cuid gramadaí.

Ó mura bhfuil an tuiseal ginideach agat
Agus slacht ar do chuid 'h'eannaí
Níl suim dá laghad agam ionat
Mar is cinnte go mbrisfidh tú mo chroí
Ach más gaeilgeoir snasta blasta thú
Is má thuigeann tú cúrsaí gramadaí
Tar trasna na páirce móire chugam
Táim anseo i dtóin an tí.

Táim ag siúl an bhóthair uaignigh seo
Le fada fada an lá
Ag cuartú na mná gaelaí i ngach aon áit
Ach faraor, níl sí le fáil
Bean atá tugtha don tuiseal tabharthach
Bean a thuigeann na díochlaontaí
Bean a rachadh chun na leapan liom
Le Graiméar na mBráithre Críostaí

Óra mura bhfuil an tuiseal ginideach agat
Agus slacht ar do chuid 'h'eannaí
Níl suim dá laghad agam ionat
Mar is cinnte go mbrisfidh tú mo chroí
Ach más gaeilgeoir snasta blasta thú
Is má thuigeann tú cúrsaí gramadaí
Tar trasna na sráide caoile chugam
Táim anseo i dtóin an tí.

Mar sin más tú an cailín seo
Is má tá tú i do shaineolaí
Ar rangabháil na deacrachta
Gan trácht ar na tréaniolraí
Má bhaineann tú pléisiúr as na cosain chaola
Más maith leat an briathar saor
Tar liomsa a stóirín nó go n-éaloidh muid le chéile
Ach ar dtús, scrúdú beag gramadaí.

Óra mura bhfuil an tuiseal ginideach agat
Agus slacht ar do chuid 'h'eannaí
Níl suim dá laghad agam ionat
Mar is cinnte go mbrisfidh tú mo chroí
Ach más gaeilgeoir snasta blasta thú
Is má thuigeann tú cúrsaí gramadaí
Tar trasna na páirce móire chugam
Tar trasna na sráide caoile chugam
Tar trasna na leabharlainne ciúine chugam
Tar trasna na farraige gairbhe chugam
Tar trasna na carraige duibhe chugam
Tar trasna na liomanáide báine chugam
Táim anseo i dtóin an tí.

Bheimís pósta agus sásta inniu
Bheadh páistí ar fud an tí
Ag gaeilgeoireacht ó dhubh go dubh
Murach a cuid gramadaí.

Hopefully there are enough young people who are concerned about maintaining the Irish Gaelic as a part of their identity (and including it in the family identity) as a language only lives as a cultural and communal property! Even though I'm not in the least Irish (not that I know of - I'm adopted w/o parent records) I'm determined to learn it (even if I mangle the genitive for a few years before I get it straight). Tis not only sexy, but also rewarding to learn...and one day I might even get the vocative down!

Feicfidh mé níos déanaí sibh

Lynn (Bím dána lá s'oích)

Lynn, a chara,

It looks as if you're getting the hang of it already, bail ó Dhia ort. The vocative is actually quite simple (it's a matter of taking care in small things). You use the vocative particle 'a' and aspirate. With feminine names, there are no other changes. With masculine names, (with a few exceptions - namely, names in the third declension) you slenderise the final consonant (if not already slender).

example - Siobhán

vocative: a Shiobhán (Shiobhán)

example - Tadhg

vocative: a Thaidhg (Thaidhg)

With names that begin with a vowel, you write the vocative particle 'a' but you don't pronounce it (it gets 'swallowed up' by the following vowel, so to speak)

example - Éamonn

vocative: a Éamoinn (pronounced as simply 'Éamoinn')

simplí go leor, nach ea?

Tadhg,

What an interesting write up. Thanks for sharing.

As for your question on where are the women who think Irish is sexy? OMG LOL! I guess everywhere BUT Ireland. I say that tongue-in-cheek but it's not too far off the mark and here's what I mean.

Let's leave the Irish language aside for a minute and just discuss the accent or better yet, even intonation. People are always attracted to something they don't hear on an everyday basis. For instance I'm from the Southeast US and needless to say many men from the North find my accent (which isn't as pronounced as say someone from Alabama or Georgia) attractive. But it's also the way in which a southern woman speaks...drawing words out, not like someone from NY which is a more clipped/fast way of speaking. Does that make sense? So, this is a big generalization but I'm making the leap of faith here...carrying that theme a little further, Americans think that foreign accents are interesting/attractive since it's not something that's common. All that being said, I still do find the Irish language very beautiful (not uncouth at all) and truly enjoy listening to the Irish radio station over the internet.

We do exist Tadhg! Believe it or not!!!

So, speaking of southern accents here's an 'uncouth' joke for you...a guy's answer on why he likes southern women so much....'Cause, by time she says 'no' it's too late." Bawhahahaha.


Slán,

Patrice

Feicim go bhfuil Tadgh an Mhargaidh inar measc aríst. Cheap mé go raibh sé ag cur an samhradh isitgh i gcroílár Ghaeltacht Chois Fharraige i mbothánín beag ag seanchas cois tine le scata seanleads.

Fáilte ar ais, a Thadgh! Tá poll i mo ionathar ag léamh faoi dhearcadh na mban óg sa Ghaeltacht ach, mar a deir tú, b'fhéidir go dtiocfaidh athrú ar an tsaol.

Patrice, that joke was well funny.

BTW, waht does that acronym ROFLM or whatever it is stand for?

Ailill,

ROTF = Rolling on the floor
ROTFLMAO = Rolling on the floor laughing my a** off. My favorite!

Slán,

Patrice

Deb wrote:Yes, there is that "certain something" that is inexplicable about hearing someone speak Irish, that we women do, indeed, like.... a lot.

But, still in the Gaelic thread of things....I could sit an listen to Sean Connery discuss things as banal the theories behind why concrete sets up at different rates...all day and then start the same topic over again...

He wouldn't even have to say "Bond... James, Bond"

Hey Deb and Lynn- Conas tá tú!!!!!!!

Dia dhuit ar maidin JSmith!

Bím anseo...but I thought you have a cailín of your own

Doesn't she like your Irish? My boyfriend can't stand hearing about Ireland or Irish Gaelic anymore, 'tis a pity for him, then I'll just have to fly over there -alone-. Maybe next year for St. Brigid's St. Patrick's is still too cold I fear...

Yes, I have one. She listens to me go on about Ireland and practice Irish with no complaints. She is even actually warming to the situation. She wants to go to Ireland even. She's just not much of a joiner, but she supports my goings on and even gets into it once she warms up to it. I'm just being the Devil's advocate here. I have a reputation you know!!