Irish Translation Forum

Ask for Irish Gaelic translations on this English to Irish, Irish to English translator forum.
Irish language translations given on this voluntary community site cannot be guaranteed to be correct. Always ask for a second or third opinion, especially for requests for tattoos, wedding rings, etc.

Lia

Ask for free Irish Gaelic translations. Community-based Irish English translator service.

Moderator: Moderators - Módhnóirí

Author Message
Post December 16 2005, 7:22 AM
Lasairíona
Anseo again
 
Posts: 11
HI!

What does lia translate to? I thought it was destiny, but then I noticed in another post that "lia dubh" translates to "dark healer" which means that healer=lia? Or not...

Lux,
Aine

 
Post December 16 2005, 8:25 AM
mhwombat
wombat oifigiúil an fóraim
 
Posts: 18524
Just as in English, and Irish word can have more than one meaning.

One meaning of lia is "healer".
Another meaning of lia is "stone".
There are other meanings as well.

But I don't think lia ever means "destiny". I just did a search, and I don't think we've ever said that. We have offered translations of phrases including the word "destiny", and some of those translations included the word "lia". But Irish uses a different word order, so you can't just assume (for example) that the third word of the translation is the same as the third word of the original phrase.

The word I am most familiar with for "destiny" is ciniúint. Wait for others to comment.

Post December 16 2005, 15:34 PM
An Mathghamhain
Scéalaí Mór
 
Posts: 1594
I think Lasairíona may be confusing the words from Lia Fáil the Stone of Destiny, aka The Stone of Scone.
a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,l,m,n,o,p,r,s,t,u

Níl Gaeilge líofa agam.

I don't speak fluent Irish.

Post December 16 2005, 15:44 PM
oisin718
Andúileach IGTF
 
Posts: 14098
An Mathghamhain wrote:I think Lasairíona may be confusing the words from Lia Fáil the Stone of Destiny, aka The Stone of Scone.


Fáil does not mean "destiny."

It's actually related to words like "wield" and "valid" and "wealth" and "valor." It means "ruling power; authority."

No one knows specifically what happened to the Lia Fáil, the coronation stone from Tara. It was probably a flat slab of rock like a flagstone that lay on the ground.

There are some legends that either the whole stone or part of it was leant for the coronation of the king of Scotland and remained in Scone, but unfortunately there is no way to determine what exactly happened to the Lia Fáil and whether it and the Stone of Scone are one and the same.

The Lia Fáil is supposed to let out a cry when the person destined to be the High King stands on it to be invested in his office, hense the name "Stone of Destiny."

Post December 16 2005, 15:59 PM
An Mathghamhain
Scéalaí Mór
 
Posts: 1594
Fáil does not mean "destiny."

It's actually related to words like "wield" and "valid" and "wealth" and "valor." It means "ruling power; authority."


Are you sure?

I know Fál is a name for Ireland. Hence Inis Fáil Island of Destiny. The political party Fianna Fáil translate their name as Soldiers of Destiny. :nixweiss:
a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,l,m,n,o,p,r,s,t,u

Níl Gaeilge líofa agam.

I don't speak fluent Irish.

Post December 16 2005, 16:00 PM
Aibigéal
Scríbhneoir d'Éigean
 
Posts: 20550
mhwombat wrote:The word I am most familiar with for "destiny" is ciniúint. Wait for others to comment.


Same here, but slightly more n-ulous:

cinniúint
fate/destiny

Abigeál

Post December 16 2005, 16:14 PM
oisin718
Andúileach IGTF
 
Posts: 14098
An Mathghamhain wrote:
Fáil does not mean "destiny."

It's actually related to words like "wield" and "valid" and "wealth" and "valor." It means "ruling power; authority."


Are you sure?

I know Fál is a name for Ireland. Hence Inis Fáil Island of Destiny. The political party Fianna Fáil translate their name as Soldiers of Destiny. :nixweiss:


Yes I am very sure. And "Fál" does not mean Ireland, at least not directly.

Standing on the Lia Fáil was for the High King what having St. Edward's Crown put on his head by the Archbishop of Canterbury is for the British monarch: the symbolic conferment of ruling authority. "Fál" comes from the PIE *wal- which appears in many words with the notion of power, strength.

So, by standing on the LF -- and being invested with a white rod and then having a shoe placed on his foot as he stepped off it -- the High King was officially ritually legitimated as the High King. The Lia Fáil was the stamp of approval that conferred the ruling authority -- or at least the ceremonial status of being wedded to the Goddess Eriu -- to the High King. I think the first logical step in the semantic expansion is to equate the island with the sovereignty of the High King, hense -- Inis Fáil.

Then, once Inis Fáil became accepted as a name for the island, Fál/Fáil itself becomes considered a word for "Ireland," hence "Fianna Fáil."

Post December 16 2005, 16:55 PM
Rudi
Scéalaí Mór
 
Posts: 1928
An Mathghamhain wrote:
Fáil does not mean "destiny."

It's actually related to words like "wield" and "valid" and "wealth" and "valor." It means "ruling power; authority."


Are you sure?

I know Fál is a name for Ireland. Hence Inis Fáil Island of Destiny. The political party Fianna Fáil translate their name as Soldiers of Destiny. :nixweiss:


Hi Mathghamhain.

Yes - you're right. 'Fál' (capitalized) - gen: 'Fáil' is used to denote Ireland.

Críocha Fáil would be the lands/teritories of Ireland.

Fir Fáil would be the men of Ireland.

Post December 16 2005, 17:05 PM
oisin718
Andúileach IGTF
 
Posts: 14098
Rudi wrote:
An Mathghamhain wrote:
Fáil does not mean "destiny."

It's actually related to words like "wield" and "valid" and "wealth" and "valor." It means "ruling power; authority."


Are you sure?

I know Fál is a name for Ireland. Hence Inis Fáil Island of Destiny. The political party Fianna Fáil translate their name as Soldiers of Destiny. :nixweiss:


Hi Mathghamhain.

Yes - you're right. 'Fál' (capitalized) - gen: 'Fáil' is used to denote Ireland.

Críocha Fáil would be the lands/teritories of Ireland.

Fir Fáil would be the men of Ireland.


But that is not the origin of the word, only how it evolved.

Pray, tell, what you think "Fál" means and where it comes from, Mr. Smarty-Pants?

Post December 16 2005, 18:12 PM
Rudi
Scéalaí Mór
 
Posts: 1928
oisin718 wrote:
Rudi wrote:
An Mathghamhain wrote:
Fáil does not mean "destiny."

It's actually related to words like "wield" and "valid" and "wealth" and "valor." It means "ruling power; authority."


Are you sure?

I know Fál is a name for Ireland. Hence Inis Fáil Island of Destiny. The political party Fianna Fáil translate their name as Soldiers of Destiny. :nixweiss:


Hi Mathghamhain.

Yes - you're right. 'Fál' (capitalized) - gen: 'Fáil' is used to denote Ireland.

Críocha Fáil would be the lands/teritories of Ireland.

Fir Fáil would be the men of Ireland.


But that is not the origin of the word, only how it evolved.

Pray, tell, what you think "Fál" means and where it comes from, Mr. Smarty-Pants?



Fál translates as Ireland in the above phrases.

As for it's etymology. I understand there was probably a word in Celtic. *walos- "ruler," . This most likely survived into old Irish in 'flaith' "dominion/power.

In Proto Indo European *waldh is suggested from a base *wal- meaning something like "to rule, to hold dominion, to be strong,"

Fascinating stuff really.


Next

Who is online

Registered users: Bing [Bot], Gealún, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Yahoo [Bot]