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Post September 08 2004, 10:04 AM
Daibhéid
Getting Addicted
 
Posts: 44
First of all, I can't say enough of how much I enjoy this site. It has been very helpful in my learning of Gaeilge. A quick question about Irish grammer: I know that things are either 'masc.' or 'fem.'. Is there one more than the other. In my beginner lessons, I found that 'street' is fem. where 'road' is masc.. Are all Irish words divided as such and is there a "general" rule to which is masc. and which fem.? The search to find another speaker in my area continues. Everyone seems content speaking that barbaric english tongue. :? I'll resist a de Valera quote here. :wink:
My last question, I'm not sure how it will be perceived, but I know this is a forum for translations, but I feel like a bum always asking for a translation. I guess what I'm trying to say is this a forum/site for more than translations? I mean as in promotion of Gaeilge literature, culture, Gaeilge societies, are there any computer programs in Gaeilge, so our pc's could have that on screen instead of everything in english? I hope I don't offend anyone here, well if I offend the english, I don't care, but they have been trying to destroy everything Irish for how many hundreds of years? I don't believe they've stopped. No, I'm not talking about just 'brits' but the entire anglo world. I've mentioned I'm having trouble finding anyone who speaks Gaeilge here or anyone who cares to learn. I get critisised for wanting to learn. Again, I'm trying not to be "offensive" but it appears to me every culture has their language, but not Irish. I mean it exists, but it's hard to find things in it. I'm not even going to tell the number of people I've met who thought Irish people spoke english as a native language! Ok, lol,I better end this post before I get really politcal. Any comments would be appreciated and if anyone would like to discuss more of these topics, I would love to as well. :D [/b]

 
Post September 08 2004, 10:40 AM
oisin718
Andúileach IGTF
 
Posts: 14098
1.) There is no global "Anglo" conspiracy bent on destroying the Irish language or culture.

The expansion of "Anglo-American" culture and the decline of the Irish language have more to do with economics than anything else. To pretend that some mysterious evil "they" are out to destroy the language and culture is paranoid, at best.

2.) The grammatical gender of nouns is pretty evenly distributed, although there more be more masculine since the masculine gender absorbed much of the old neuter gender.

3.) Certainly we talk about many issues on this forum -- some even comment on terrorist attacks that happened a week ago in Russia (yet I don't recall anyone lamenting the suicide bombing in Israel at about the same time) -- but our primary purpose is translation, hense the "Irish Gaelic Translation Forum."

4

Post September 08 2004, 10:44 AM
erigena
Laoch na nGael
 
Posts: 1310
As far as I know there are no strict rules about which nouns are feminine and which masculine, but there are a few rules of thumb:

Masculine Nouns:

Male things (fear, man; tarbh, bull)

Professionals (doctúir, doctor; rúnaí, secretary)

Nouns that end in broad consonants, especially if the last vowel is long: bád, boat (but -óg and -eog are feminine endings)

Nouns that have the following endings:
--(a)ire: an t-iascaire, an t-ailtire
-(a)í: an rúnaí, an t-oibrí
-álaí: an ceantálaí, an tarrthálaí
-éir: an búistéir, an báicéir
-eoir: an múinteoir, an feirmeoir
-óir: an cúntóir, an léachtóir
-úir: an dochtúir, an táilliúir


Feminine Nouns

Female things: banaltra, nurse; , cow

Most Countries and Languages: An Fhrainc, France, An Iodáilís, Italian

Abstract nouns that end in -e or

Nouns that have the following endings:

-óg: an bhróg, an ordóg
-eog: an fhuinneog, an bhileog
-lann: an phictiúrlann, an bhialann, an otharlann
-(a)íocht: an eolaíocht, an fhilíocht
-(e)acht: (polysyllabic) an ghluaiseacht, an mhallacht
-(i)úint: an chanúint, an oiliúint
-(a)ilt: an oscailt, an tochailt
-áint: an iomáint, an tiomáint
-irt: an imirt, an abairt
-is: an uirlis
-ís: an fhís, an mhailís
-aois: an chalaois
-(a)íl: an fheadaíl
-(e)áil: an phróiseáil, an phacáil


:schreiben: There'll always be some exceptions, of course.

Post September 08 2004, 12:46 PM
Niall Mór
Laoch na nGael
 
Posts: 934
I'm not even going to tell the number of people I've met who thought Irish people spoke english as a native language!


Alas my freind the vast majority of Irish people do speak English as their native language! and have done for a very long time.

The major reason for the decline of Gaeilic has been the fact that it became an economic necessity to speak English to get a job since the major industries in towns and cities were all controlled by the anglo-Irish. Secondly parents around this time actively encouraged their children to learn English and to abandon Irish as useless and out dated (this was in the first decades of the 1900's).

As if that was not enough after independence most school children had Irish actively beaten into them as an 'academic subject' taught along the same lines as Latin or Classical Greek (by rote) which also helped the cause immensely and caused at least three generations of people to have psychopathic aversions to Irish and no other wish than to dance on Peig Sayers' grave (I'm told the queue for this particular activity was quite substantial).

Latterly, the fashion for the 'Celtic' has helped generate an interest in the language outside the Island but most of the natives still have the attitude that learning this 'dead' language is totally pointless and uses up valuable time which could be much better spent pretending to be English or American (and cultivating an accent to suit) or in mobile phone conversations or trying to make money!

So sadly, the 'Anglo conspiricy' was probably the least of the Irish culture and languages' problems! The sad truth as Thomas Davis said is that 'The Children sold their mother!'

Post September 08 2004, 14:15 PM
wdsci
Aistritheoir Cíocrach
 
Posts: 19066
Daibhéid wrote:are there any computer programs in Gaeilge, so our pc's could have that on screen instead of everything in english?

Perhaps there are programs like this (I'm working on one myself) but I don't know of any way to change the global language settings in English, at least not for Windows. (If you use Google then you can set it to display in Irish)

Linux, however, DOES allow you to change the system language to Gaeilge :wink: :mrgreen:

:) David
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Post September 08 2004, 14:19 PM
oisin718
Andúileach IGTF
 
Posts: 14098
I think the Evil Global Anglo Conspiracy to Destroy Irish Culture shares its meeting place with the Evil Atheistic Scientist Conspiracy to Promote Evolution and Destroy Christianity, in rotation with the Evil Lesbian Feminist Conspiracy to Promote Abortion and Destroy the Family...

...and I'm certain our friend "d noone" from Cork would tell us that these are all just subcommittess of the Evil Global Jewish Zionist/Bolshevik Conspiracy. :roll:

Post September 08 2004, 14:21 PM
wdsci
Aistritheoir Cíocrach
 
Posts: 19066
oisin718 wrote:I think the Evil Global Anglo Conspiracy to Destroy Irish Culture shares its meeting place with the Evil Atheistic Scientist Conspiracy to Promote Evolution and Destroy Christianity, in rotation with the Evil Lesbian Feminist Conspiracy to Promote Abortion and Destroy the Family...

...and I'm certain our friend "d noone" from Cork would tell us that these are all just subcommittess of the Evil Global Jewish Zionist/Bolshevik Conspiracy. :roll:

As is Microsoft . . . .

:lach: :lach: j/k
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Post September 08 2004, 14:25 PM
oisin718
Andúileach IGTF
 
Posts: 14098
No, Microsoft actually IS an evil global conspiracy....

:versteck:

Post September 08 2004, 14:28 PM
wdsci
Aistritheoir Cíocrach
 
Posts: 19066
I know, I just didn't want to invite any pro-MS flame wars.

Or maybe the Microsoft people are the ones running the whole evil-global-conspiracy thing now
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Post September 08 2004, 15:21 PM
Tom20
Gaeilgeoir
 
Posts: 296
If your trying to find someone to blame for the present destruction of the Irish language, I suggest you blame the Irish.


Taken from www.openrepublic.org

Erin Go Bragh - But in English Please

"Ireland's opposition parties proposed a motion in the Dáil (Irish parliament) in February that the Irish language, the "official" language of Ireland, should become an official EU language as well. The EU already has 20 official languages, but don't be fooled by the temptation to add just one more. Even the smallest EU languages, like Maltese, Estonian, and Lithuanian are spoken by people who live in the real world. Irish - or Gaelic - is the tongue of a country inhabiting a dream-world - in other words a country that doesn't exist.

Here are the facts: Most of the native-born population of Ireland can't understand the language of their road signs. They can't understand the language of the document that is the guarantor of their basic human rights, the Constitution - the English is just a translation. They can't understand the English meaning of the Gaelic names of the state agencies that spend their money. Tens of thousands have been denied education and employment for which they were entirely suited because a language that the law tells them is theirs and no one else's is alien to them.

For most Irish people compulsory Irish language lessons in schools are their first experience of the state's pervasive policy of promoting "native" Irish culture. All pupils take Irish language classes right up to the end of secondary level. Despite this effort, very few people are able to speak the language. And of those that can, even fewer actually do. The need to pass the Leaving Cert (final secondary level) Irish exam to get into most Irish universities and state jobs has blighted thousands of lives.

But the damage doesn't end there. The Irish-language regime has fostered an ethnocentric definition of culture that has relegated non-indigenous and Anglo-Irish culture to second-class status. The de facto reality-including the reality that most of what is worthy about the real culture of Ireland has its origin in Britain, Continental Europe and the U.S.-has been wished away. This reality, which also includes what Ireland has exported, is our real heritage.

By using the educational system and official "arts" policy to colonize the minds of generations of Irish with a pseudo-aboriginal ethnicity, the promoters of this policy have replaced what would have been a real culture with a fake culture. This is why so many people in Ireland know nothing of our British, American and European cultural heritage. It's why even graduates are happy with the dumbed-down assumption that street theatre and public drinking are Ireland's answer to Shakespeare and Dante. It explains the persistence of the "plastic Paddy" version of Ireland that has escaped from Airport Duty Free shops and has, in recent years, spread through Ireland itself. Thus, Irish life has come to imitate a parody of itself.

The policy has detached the Irish language from reality in three ways. As the "official language of Ireland," it is a signifier of high-office and a currency of state occasions-elegant but fossilized. Secondly it has become an Esperanto for people living off Byzantine language-grant and social schemes in state-created pseudo culture-homelands-Gaeltacht areas. Thirdly, it has become a great "arts" white elephant surrounded by modish, media-savvy, café-intellectual types who lose no opportunity to pretentiously inflate the language as "fashionable" and "European." The trouble is that the public art that derives from this policy is more schlock than slick.

The promotion of "native" culture is driven by cultural nationalism. As a political force, cultural nationalism broke out all over Europe in the 1920s and 1930s-when Fascism, Nazism and Irish Nationalism spawned myths that Europe's nations had once been racially and culturally pure and that this purity could be regained through state intervention. In Germany intervention meant mass murder and war. In Ireland it meant, in addition to unofficial IRA terrorism, official measures to change the everyday spoken language from English to Irish. This wasn't as nasty as mass extermination. But it was just as preposterous. Also, old scores could be settled-against Jews, homosexuals and, in Ireland, Protestants. There was no better way of ethnically cleansing Ireland of "West-Brits" than to make the language compulsory in schools and for state jobs.

Cultural nationalism is still a powerful enough faith to ensure that, not only is the native-culture-first policy still in place, but that anyone questioning it can expect to be treated with contempt by many of his fellow (non-Irish-speaking) Irish. The traditional accusation has been that we critics are "West British." But "West British" is also a disparaging term for Protestants living in the Republic. Ireland may have been cut by Protestantism in the past but Protestant secular culture has, for nearly 500 years, been a main driver of Western civilization. To block our window on this culture is, quite simply, to plunge us into darkness.

Enshrined in Ireland's state arts and education apparatus, cultural nationalism is still a vital force. As recently as 2000 an Irish language TV station was launched. This has been a bottomless well for tax-payers' money with few viewers to show for it. Then we have the production of wholly unread Irish-language versions of every conceivable government document. This last policy is not a legacy of some long-dead politician. An "Official Languages Act," requiring every public document to have an Irish version, was voted through the Dáil only last year. Making Irish an official EU language will spread this madness to Brussels. The EU will have to hire around 150 new translators and interpreters and produce millions of pages of decisions, opinions, regulations, directives and recommendations in the Irish language. But there will be a new, surreal, twist. Nearly every Irish MEP will require any documents or speeches originating in Irish to be translated back in to English so they can read them.

The solution is simple. Irish cultural nationalism needs to be killed off by refuting its core claim - that the state and those arts and culture organizations to which the state is patron, are the keepers of the essence of Ireland's artistic achievement - and that that essence is mediated through Gaelic. For decades the Cultural Nationalist high-priests have stood between us and our true culture. Now they are trying to stand between us and Europe. It's time to cut them out."


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