Irish Translation Forum

I am writing a fiction book and the main character is of Irish descent. He grew up in New York pre-Civil war. The story itself is set in 1868. I need Irish songs, prayers, or lullabies, specifically dated before then, which he might would sing to his wife and child. I found one at Wikipedia entitled, "The Last Rose of Summer" dated 1805. I also found a list of lullabies at this forum: http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/translation/topic102059.html. But dates are not give on these. I need the songs to be copyright free. Any help you give me will be appreciated and noted in the book!

You don't say whether you want songs in English or Irish.

But anyway here's a list of some Irish song and music collectors from around that period so any songs or airs to those that they collected could have been extant in your setting.

Edward Bunting (1773-1843)
William Forde (1759-1850)
James Goodman (1828-1896)
Patrick Weston Joyce (1827-1914)
Bunting and Joyce are probably the best to investigate.
Francis O'Neil and Francis Roche might be worth a look also but they are slightly later.

Without a lot of research it would be difficult to know which songs would have been contemporary or widespread in this period.
Thomas Moore's songs would definitely be known in America as he spent some time there in the very early 19th century.
If you can come up with some specific songs, etc. from the period you're writing about we may be able to supply lyrics to them.

Gealún wrote:You don't say whether you want songs in English or Irish.

But anyway here's a list of some Irish song and music collectors from around that period so any songs or airs to those that they collected could have been extant in your setting.

Edward Bunting (1773-1843)
William Forde (1759-1850)
James Goodman (1828-1896)
Patrick Weston Joyce (1827-1914)
Bunting and Joyce are probably the best to investigate.
Francis O'Neil and Francis Roche might be worth a look also but they are slightly later.

Without a lot of research it would be difficult to know which songs would have been contemporary or widespread in this period.
Thomas Moore's songs would definitely be known in America as he spent some time there in the very early 19th century.
If you can come up with some specific songs, etc. from the period you're writing about we may be able to supply lyrics to them.

Either Irish or Gaelic is acceptable.The character learns the songs through his mother, who was an Irish immigrant. She would have spoken Gaelic to him and perhaps he remembers some of that.

Your list of possible songwriters is very helpful. The problem I am having is as you stated, knowing what would be widespread at that time. I particularly want a lullaby. The first one listed at the link I posted earlier, ""Dún do Shúil", interests me. But no date or author is given to it. Does anyone know of more information on the history of this song?

Wikipedia has a list of Irish ballads. Much of them are war songs, but there are some listed as "Love and Romance". Most do not have lyrics or dates on them, which causes me a problem. If anyone could look over the list and see if any strike them as familiar and of proper age, that'd be helpful. Thanks!

In researching Edward Bunting this morning, I found a YouTube video giving his history, much of it spoken in Gaelic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJswc2pATMc. Part 2 of the video has a song which I was able to find online. http://www.irishpage.com/poems/tufein.htm Unfortunately, much of what these writers collected cannot be located by song name, which is what I need. But perhaps this song below will suffice.

Má thagann tú choiche ná tar ach san oiche,
is siúl go réidh is ná scanraigh mé
gheobhaidh tú an eochair faoi shá shair an dorais,
is mé liom féin 's ná scanraigh mé

If you come at all come only at night
and walk quietly -- don't frighten me.
You'll find the key under the doorstep
and me by myself -- don't frighten me.

Níl pota sa mbealach níl stól ná canna
ná súgán féir, ná ní faoin gréin
tá an madra chomh socair nach labharfaidh sé focal
ní náir dó é, 's maith mhúin míse é.

There's no pot in the way no stool or can
or rope of straw -- nothing at all.
The dog is quiet and won't say a word
-- it's no shame to him: I've trained him well.

Tá mo mhaimí 'na codladh 's mo dhaidí á bogadh,
's ag pógadh a béil, 's ag pógadh a béil,
nach aoibhinn di-se 's nach trua leat míse,
'mo luí liom féin ar chlúmh na n-éan.

My mammy's asleep and my daddy is coaxing
kissing her mouth and kissing her mouth.
Isn't she lucky! Have pity on me
lying here by myself in the feather bed.

Déirín Dé
Bog braon don tseanduine
Éiníní
Seóithín seó
ar all lullabies that go back a long way.

What I do usually is a search in Google Books, specifying a narrow date range. If it was widespread, it was most likely written down or printed contemporaneously, especially in the nineteenth century, with the industrial revolution and all.

The Gaelic tradition in Ireland was mainly oral. Very few of the people who sang these lullabies could read or write in Gaelic so most lullabies were passed on orally and not learned from books. There was no industrial revolution to speak of in Ireland. Lullabies were written down by collectors as a record.

The technology in Ireland was by no means comparable to that of wealthier countries, but there was an increase, especially in more industrial areas like Dublin or Drogheda. Besides, many Irish were emigrating to countries which were rather affected by the Industrial Revolution, taking with them their culture, and many Englishmen were also interested in Ireland's culture despite the tension between the two nations. These people were indeed printing Irish songs, or we should have no physical record of them to-day, which we certainly do.

If you check Google Books, you will find a lot of Irish interest, just not so much as English or American publishing (those educated at Trinity printed a *lot* of stuff). The one thing to watch for is that Irish was then rarely printed in in any kind of Roman typeface, and searches in Google Books will then generally pick up only Irish Gaelic titles in those cases. Be aware also of older spellings. I use contemporary Irish-English dictionaries to help me in that, but you can find most things by adding a 'dh' somewhere.

Thanks for the info and advice!

In searching, I found some of these in Gaelic. Can someone provide an English translation, just so I can know what it's saying? Thanks.

Déirín dé, déirín dé!
Tá’n gabhar donn ag labhairt san bhfraoch,
Déirín dé, déirín dé!
Táid na lachain ag screadaigh san bhféith
Déirín dé, déirín dé!
Geobhaidh ba siar le héirí’n lae
Déirín dé, déirín dé!
Is rachaidh mo leanbh dá bhfeighilt ar féar

Déirín dé, déirín dé!
Éireodh gealach is raghaidh grian fé,
Déirín dé, déirín dé!
Is tusa mo leanbh is mo chuid den tsaol
Déirín dé, déirín dé!
Ligfead mo leanbh ag piocadh sméar
Déirín dé, déirín dé!
Ach codladh go sámh go fáinne’n lae

Curfá:
Bog braon, bog braon, bog braon don tseanduine,
bog braon, bog braon, bog braon don tseanduine.

Cuir a chodladh, cuir a chodladh, cuir a chodladh an seanduine,
cuir a chodladh is ní a chosa is bog deoch don tseanduine.

Curfá

Ubh chirce, ubh chirce, ubh chirce don tseanduine,
ubh chirce is blúire ime is a thabhairt don tseanduine.

Curfá

Feoil úr, feoil úr, feoil úr don tseanduine,
feoil úr is braon súp is a thabhairt don tseanduine.