Irish Translation Forum

Is there a fada or not in cairde/cáirde?

Do we write a chairde or a cháirde?

I would have included a fada from old habit (perhaps I was taught that way, but I forget) and from the broad sound of the vowel, but the word is spelled in two different forms all over the internet.

No fada, cairde/ a chairde

Although cairde is pronounced as if spelled cáirde, the rd is considered to automatically cause the change in the a in the dialects where that sort of change occurs (Connacht and Munster?), and the change doesn't occur in Ulster so it is not represented in the official spelling.

You do see cáirde with the síneadh fada often in older texts.

Hi, about ten years ago this came up and i plumped for the ''síneadh fada'' I was roundly set upon by a friend who disagreed. So the accent was omitted. This was for a large Banner.My argument was that I had seen the ''cáirde' version in The Irish Times.But ''Dinneen'' took precedence.I feel somewhat vindicated by Brendán's comment on being in older texts, of course I always prounounce it ''Cáirde''I would love to see these older texts, as an aside yesterday after myself an Irish group of friends had seen ''Juno and the Paycock'' we had a meal in ''Wagamamas''the topic came up as to the Irish for ''Bon Appeito''. Any help would be appreciated. GRMA. It may need a new post?

Ó Dónaill has cairde, but both of my editions of Dinneen 1904 and 1927 have cáirde.

Other places cáirde appears:

Séamus 'ac Grianna "Caisleán Óir", "Mo Dhá Róisín", "Mícheál Ruadh", "Thiar i dTír Chonaill", "Nuair a Bhí Mé Óg", etc., etc.
Seosamh 'ac Grianna
Domhnall 'ac Grianna

Séamus Mag Uidhir "Fánaidheacht i gConndae Mhuigheo"

Seán Ó Dálaigh "Timcheall Chinn Sléibhe"

Hi, sea, tá mo coip de Dinneen ó na seachtadí,GRMA a Bhreandán.
Christy.

Breandán wrote:Although cairde is pronounced as if spelled cáirde, the rd is considered to automatically cause the change in the a in the dialects where that sort of change occurs (Connacht and Munster?), and the change doesn't occur in Ulster so it is not represented in the official spelling.

You do see cáirde with the síneadh fada often in older texts.

I recognise the RD rule with words like Carna and Garda.
But because of the "i"before the "rd" that would confuse me.
Yes I'm easily confused

I think it confuses a lot of people, a Bhríd - hence the desire to write it cáirde. I was only explaining a possible rationale behind the decision. Personally, I think cáirde with the síneadh fada makes more sense.

Thank you to everyone who replied—I appreciate your contributions.

After reading them all I find that the question is not cleanly resolved, with different dictionaries—Ó Dónaill and two editions of Dinneen—saying different things, and older texts appearing to support my tendency to use the the síneadh fada.

Some ambiguity lingers; perhaps different arguments and citations can be adduced in support of both spellings; and the information about different spellings between dialects muddies the waters a bit.

Thank you again for taking the trouble.

Languages are "muddy" by nature. The expectation of "clean and clear" answers will only lead to further confusion.

Question: Which is correct "cairde" or "cáirde"?

Short answer: Both

Long answer: As with all things it depends on your frame of reference, i.e., the context. If you respect the modern spellings, then it is cairde. If you prefer tradition, then use cáirde (especially if that is how you say it).

As with many things in real life, there can be more than one correct answer. Ceart dhom, ceart dhuit.