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Post January 23 2012, 23:49 PM
CaoimhínSF
Craiceáilte
 
Posts: 5554
Thanks a lot! Here is from where I took te lyrics of "Le Fainne Geal An Lae": http://www.celticlyricscorner.net/cassidys/fainne.htm Maybe this will help.


The English translations of that song are often very "loose" in places, as is the one at that link, so here's one below which I made myself, based on this version of the Irish lyrics (which seems to be pretty much the same as what you have):

Maidin moch do ghabhas amach,
ar bhruach Locha Léin,
an Samhradh ‘teacht ‘s an chraobh len’ ais,
is lonrach té ón ngréin,
Ar thaisteal dom trí bhailte poirt
is bánta mine réidhe,
cé a gheobhainn le m’ais ach an chúileann deas,
le fainne geal an lae.

Ní raibh bróg ná stoca, caidhp ná clóc
ar mo stóirín óg ón spéir,
ach folt fionn órga síos go troigh,
ag fás go barr an fhéir.
Bhí calán crúite aici ina glaic,
‘s ar dhrúcht ba dheas a scéimh,
do rug barr gean ar Bhéineas deas,
le fáinne geal an lae.

Do shuigh an bhrídeog síos le m’ais,
ar bhinse glas den fhéar.
Ag magadh léi, bhíos dá maíomh go pras,
mar mhnaoi nach scarfainn léi,
‘s é dúirt sí liomsa, “Imigh uaim,
is scaoil mé ar siúl a réic.”
Sin iad aneas na soilse ag teacht,
le fainne geal an lae.


One morning early I went out,
on the shore of Lough Lein.
the summer coming and the trees coming back,
and warm brilliance from the sun.
As I wandered through townlands
and level ripe pastures,
who should I find by my side but a fair maiden,
at the dawning of the day.

There was neither shoe nor stocking, cape nor cloak,
on my young darling from the sky,
but golden blonde tresses down to [her] feet,
growing to the top of the grass.
In her hands she had a milking pail,
and in the dew she looked so fair,
excelling even fine Venus,
at the dawning of the day.

The young maiden sat by my side,
on the green bench of the grass.
Teasing her, I pretended to claim
that I’d never part with her as my wife,
and she said to me: “Go away from me.
and leave me free to go roving.”
There are the lights coming from the west,
with the dawning of the day.
I'm still a learner, so be sure to get input from others, especially for tattoos.

 
Post January 24 2012, 2:52 AM
Krugosvet
Anseo again
 
Posts: 12
Aha, CoimhinSF, yes, go raibh maith agat! "Lonrach", not "ionrach", that I've guessed myself. And I wonder about "the Summer": "An Samhradh" in the third line. But... Should not it be written and pronounced as "An tSamraidh"? Like in the song "Oro 's e do Beatha a Bhaile" -- "Anois ar theacht an tsamhraidh"? I beg your pardon if I ask silly questions, but I always try to understand such things... "Na Casaidigh" plainly sing [sawru] or maybe [thawru] as I hear this but why? Hear - summer, and there - summer, but these summers are different? :)

Post January 24 2012, 3:01 AM
Redwolf
Ard-Banríon na Ráiméise
 
Posts: 57599
Krugosvet wrote:Aha, CoimhinSF, yes, go raibh maith agat! "Lonrach", not "ionrach", that I've guessed myself. And I wonder about "the Summer": "An Samhradh" in the third line. But... Should not it be written and pronounced as "An tSamraidh"? Like in the song "Oro 's e do Beatha a Bhaile" -- "Anois ar theacht an tsamhraidh"? I beg your pardon if I ask silly questions, but I always try to understand such things... "Na Casaidigh" plainly sing [sawru] or maybe [thawru] as I hear this but why? Hear - summer, and there - summer, but these summers are different? :)


It's a grammatical thing.

Nominative case ("Summer" as the subject of a sentence): An Samhradh

Genitive case ("Summer" as a possessive): An tSamhraidh

In "Óró, sé do bheatha abhaile," you're saying "now at the start of Summer," which requires the genitive an tSamhraidh (pronounced "un TOW-ree")

In "Fáinne Geal an Lae" you're saying "Summer is coming," which puts Summer in the nominative: An Samhradh (pronounced "un SOW-roo").

Redwolf

Post January 24 2012, 3:20 AM
Krugosvet
Anseo again
 
Posts: 12
Wow exciting. *TNX* *TNX* *TNX* Redwolf and BridMhor! That shows how dangerous is to believe to all that here-and-there Internet "phrasebooks" and "quick tutorials" (as I did) :) In one I read that "sh" and "th" are read simply as breathing "h" (not [x] like in [lox] but breathing one), in another - that adding a definite article "an" always involves a lenition, like "Bean - an Bhean", "Samhradh" - "an tSamradh" and so on... I see I need to dig into Irish grammar deeper - but that's cool I think. I love such complex puzzles - maybe ' cause Russian language has a similiar nature, where all rules are "just rules", but in fact you are to forget about all rules and "just learn how to say correct" :D

Post January 24 2012, 3:42 AM
Redwolf
Ard-Banríon na Ráiméise
 
Posts: 57599
Krugosvet wrote:Wow exciting. *TNX* *TNX* *TNX* Redwolf and BridMhor! That shows how dangerous is to believe to all that here-and-there Internet "phrasebooks" and "quick tutorials" (as I did) :) In one I read that "sh" and "th" are read simply as breathing "h" (not [x] like in [lox] but breathing one), in another - that adding a definite article "an" always involves a lenition, like "Bean - an Bhean", "Samhradh" - "an tSamradh" and so on... I see I need to dig into Irish grammar deeper - but that's cool I think. I love such complex puzzles - maybe ' cause Russian language has a similiar nature, where all rules are "just rules", but in fact you are to forget about all rules and "just learn how to say correct" :D


Oh yes...much more complicated than that! I don't speak Russian at all, I'm afraid, but I'm guessing that, like all languages, it has its rules and exceptions.

Some basics with Irish and the definite article:

In the nominative case, if the word is masculine, it has no change with the definite article in the nominative unless it begins with a vowel, in which case "t" is prefixed. So...

An fear = the man (root form: fear)

An t-asal = the donkey (root form: asal)

If the word is feminine, it is lenited in the nominative if it begins with a consonant, but unaffected if it begins with a vowel. So...

An bhean = the woman (root form: bean)

An oíche = the night (root form: oíche)

In the genitive case with a masculine noun, the definite article remains the same, but the noun is lenited if it begins with a lenitable consonant other than "s" (and there may be other changes as well):

An chairr: = of the car (root form: carr)

If the word is masculine and begins with a vowel, there is no initial mutation:

An asail = of the donkey (root form: asal)

If the word is masculine and begins with an "s," "t" is prefixed:

An tsamhraidh = of the summer (root form: samhradh)

If the word is feminine and begins with a consonant, the definite article becomes "na" and there is no lenition:

Na bialainne = of the restaurant (root form: bialann)

If the word is feminine and begins with a vowel, it is prefixed with "h":

Na hoíche = of the night (root form: oíche)

Redwolf

Post January 24 2012, 4:31 AM
Krugosvet
Anseo again
 
Posts: 12
Thanks again! *LEARNING IN PROCESS*
---
PS Yes, any language consists of rules and exceptions. But the question is a percentage of both ones... By the way these numbers can differ for a particular language "fields". For example Russian is easy language to write and read (9 of 10 words are read just as they are written), unlike English, French or Irish Gaelic. But as for lexic and grammar, Russian can be a true nightmare. I estimate rules/exceptions percentage in this case as 30/70 at least. From this point of view English seems to be a sweet candy.

Post January 24 2012, 7:59 AM
Breandán
Giostaire
 
Posts: 4409
SOW-roo is the Ulster pronunciation of samhradh. In Munster and Connacht, the pronunciation is SOW-ruh /saurə/.

Post January 24 2012, 15:25 PM
Redwolf
Ard-Banríon na Ráiméise
 
Posts: 57599
Breandán wrote:SOW-roo is the Ulster pronunciation of samhradh. In Munster and Connacht, the pronunciation is SOW-ruh /saurə/.


If he's using "Singing in Irish Gaelic," it's Ulster pronunciation he's getting.

Redwolf

Post January 24 2012, 17:19 PM
Breandán
Giostaire
 
Posts: 4409
Oh, well. It doesn't hurt to know the differences. :lol:

Post January 25 2012, 5:17 AM
Krugosvet
Anseo again
 
Posts: 12
Yes, about the differences - it is very interesting, at least for me. "Singing in Irish Gaelic" uses Ulster pronounciation -- that's wonderful, but why shouldn't I to learn more about other variants? As a non-native speaker I have already learned some facts about English dialects, and even in PC games I can now differ when a personage speaks with scottish or cockney or US or "true BBC dictor" pronounciation -- often it enriches a portrait with some "rustic" or, well, "clever-clever" colors. It is very interesting to listen, to hear, to differ and to understand in my opinion.
---
By the way, is Caighdeán Oifigiúil used for "Buntus Cainte" or some particular dialect? :)


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