Irish Translation Forum

Excellent, thank you.

Nice breakdown! Thanks!

I had a real light bulb moment with these during the last immersion weekend. Éamonn Ó Donaill was the teacher for my level and, after giving us a list of the phrases that always take either the dependent or independent form of the verb, he said (In Irish, of course, but I'm not going to try to duplicate that here), that when you're talking about people, it's often a matter of whether you'd use "who" or "whom" in English. So...

The teacher who won the award: Direct relative

The teacher whom the principal recommended for the award: Indirect relative

Redwolf

This is great!! Thanks a lot! Really helpful!

Redwolf wrote:The teacher whom the principal recommended for the award: Indirect relative

Ah, but that would still be a direct relative, because the antecedent (the teacher) is the direct object of the relative clause. Now if it had been: the award that the principal recommended the teacher for, then the antecedent is the indirect object of the relative clause, so that's an indirect relative. Perhaps the suggestion was that who(m) usually introduces a direct relative clause, and that or whose usually introduces an indirect relative clause? I'm just guessing; I haven't thought this through.

mhwombat wrote:*to clarify ambiguous phrases

an wombat ar ith an tseacláid í
the wombat whom the chocolate ate

this is what i was trying to get at in the pm although i didn't splain it very well

the man who the devil kissed
the man who kissed the devil
an fear ar phóg an diabhal
the man whom the devil kissed
an fear ar phóg an diabhal é

I dont think you meant ar...rather a phóg..in the ambiguous sentence?

I like this better
Sometimes a direct relative clause can be ambiguous in meaning, leaving unclear if the relative is accusative or nominative:

an sagart a phóg an bhean "the priest who kissed the woman" or "the priest whom the woman kissed"
If the accusative reading is intended, one could use an indirect relative with a resumptive pronoun:

an sagart ar phóg an bhean é "the priest whom the woman kissed" (lit. "the priest that the woman kissed him")

Bodhránbob wrote:I like this better blah blah direct relative clause blah ambiguous blah blah accusative blah priest blah woman

But my version has wombats and chocolate.

Chocolate just aint splainy enough..need hands on Kissin